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Buckeye
07-01-16, 00:30
Which would you prefer, a competition every month or one every two months?

Peter

Penpal
07-01-16, 00:45
Neither 4 mths.

Peter.

flexi
07-01-16, 06:19
Personaly one every 2:thumbs:

wm460
07-01-16, 07:21
Neither 4 mths.

Peter.

I agree with Peter, If you have too many people will get bored with them.:thinks:

chas_41_uk
07-01-16, 07:23
Voted. Every two months. Unfortunately real life gets in the way to do it more often :sob:

bluntchisel
07-01-16, 11:01
Yearly.

Bob.

donwatson
07-01-16, 11:10
Every 2 months :thumbs:

Woody
07-01-16, 11:14
Once in a blue moon funny things comos people soon lose interest if they are to often

Buckeye
07-01-16, 11:36
Once in a blue moon funny things comos people soon lose interest if they are to often

Hopefully not all the same people at the same time, 7 votes so far indicate every 2 months as the preferred choice of the two.

If people can't be bothered to enter the competitions then it's obvious that they are not needed, but I think competition raises the standard and challenges people to challenge themselves, Hopefully enough people will give it a try and get into it.

Peter

Buckeye
07-01-16, 11:40
Yearly.

Bob.

We could have a yearly one as well:thumbs:

Peter

bellringer
07-01-16, 12:19
Two I think is best

Woody
07-01-16, 12:36
Hopefully not all the same people at the same time, 7 votes so far indicate every 2 months as the preferred choice of the two.

If people can't be bothered to enter the competitions then it's obvious that they are not needed, but I think competition raises the standard and challenges people to challenge themselves, Hopefully enough people will give it a try and get into it.

Peter

Im in total agreement Peter I have tried a few times to run compos I personally think they ate a good idea just the compo you have suggested will raise the standard of people who have never done a segmented pen but I also thing some are afraid of going up against people who are more experienced which is a shame and there is no need for them to feel like that well not on this forum anyway

Buckeye
07-01-16, 12:48
Im in total agreement Peter I have tried a few times to run compos I personally think they ate a good idea just the compo you have suggested will raise the standard of people who have never done a segmented pen but I also thing some are afraid of going up against people who are more experienced which is a shame and there is no need for them to feel like that well not on this forum anyway

You are spot on, especially as it is the members who vote and who knows what the member will choose. It was the same with photo competitions, people would say what's the point of entering such and such will win, I always told them that I don't want to win a competition where all the entries are mediocre, I want to beat the best. The only way to beat the best is to enter and fail and try again and win, there is no shame in trying to win.

Bammer
07-01-16, 14:26
Im in total agreement Peter I have tried a few times to run compos I personally think they ate a good idea just the compo you have suggested will raise the standard of people who have never done a segmented pen but I also thing some are afraid of going up against people who are more experienced which is a shame and there is no need for them to feel like that well not on this forum anyway

Got to agree with that ... I've never completed a decent Celtic knot, attempted a segmented pen, never played with a hybrid blank or a stabalised blank ....

But COMPETITION ..... I'll wipe the floor with the lot of ya .... :winking:

Except Jim of course, can he be banned from entering ... :face:

Bammer
07-01-16, 14:27
Forgot to answer the poll ... I'm easy, but 2 months will allow for real life stuff to get done .....

and to correct the cock-ups I will have made producing my entry :winking:

Bob Ellis
07-01-16, 14:50
Having been involved in competitions on other fora (nothing to do with pen turning), my experience is that people soon begin to find competitions a chore if they are too frequent and they stop entering them. This would be a shame because competitions serve a useful purpose. I think two months is too frequent: one every three or four months sounds better to me.

Lons
07-01-16, 17:27
If a direct choice then it would have to be 2 months for me but tbh I'm not sure I could even manage as frequently as that.

I don't think it matters if those of us who do enter comps actually manage every single one as long as there are enough entries in total. However as I said once before, I think every member really should do their best to enter the comps in support of the guys who put in the considerable effort it takes to organise them.

You can't win it if you aren't in it!:ciggrin:

TaylorsMirfield.co.uk
07-01-16, 17:33
2 months. I will have to get arse into gear and enter one myself.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

yorkshireman
07-01-16, 17:49
I'd say four per year, spring, summer, etc.

Chrisd
07-01-16, 19:24
Every two months: And I'll give it a go!!!

Chris

Jim
07-01-16, 20:12
I went with every two months also, it certainly does help if we all know the topic of the competition well in hand, it gives those who have never ventured into the said topic a chance to practice and learn the knowledge needed to enter his/her pen .. I also liked the idea of the seasonal competitions .. :thumbs:

silver
07-01-16, 20:20
I'm back..

I would say neither..

Twice a year.

As per Woody and Bob, 6 times a year and it would get difficult to enter and with a very small core of committed forum member it would be the same ones that enter. The ones with the most time..

That's you old farts that have retired and wonder how the hell you ever managed to fit working life in to a week.:face:

Buckeye
07-01-16, 20:42
I went with every two months also, it certainly does help if we all know the topic of the competition well in hand, it gives those who have never ventured into the said topic a chance to practice and learn the knowledge needed to enter his/her pen .. I also liked the idea of the seasonal competitions .. :thumbs:

That's the reason I mentioned the kitless, hybrid blank and closed end so that people know they are coming and can get a jump ahead if they wish.

If it is every two months and the poll looks like it will be, then there is plenty of time for the next theme to be announced.

Peter

Lons
07-01-16, 20:47
That's you old farts that have retired and wonder how the hell you ever managed to fit working life in to a week.:face:

Yep that's me :banana::funny:

silver
07-01-16, 20:50
If it is every two months and the poll looks like it will be, then there is plenty of time for the next theme to be announced.

Peter

I believe it's only gone to 2 months as there is no third option Peter.

If there was a 3 or 4 months I think you would have found that it would have gone out further.

The one month option may as well not been there as I believe that the active forum members know too well how difficult it is to get an entry in.

Just my opinion.

chas_41_uk
07-01-16, 20:54
I voted for every other month as that was the best of the two choices available. But I agree with some of the other comments on here that every other month may be too many as well. 3 to 4 times a year may be a better option.

Plus it always seems to be the same 10 - 20 people entering the competitions.


This could be down to not enough spare time (usually my excuse when I don't enter)
Don't feel experienced enough
Other reasons


It would be interesting to see why people don't enter the competitions and how we can encourage more participation.

silver
07-01-16, 21:07
I voted for every other month as that was the best of the two choices available.


I rest my case..:face:

The reason I have t entered is just that, time.

I know we can all say we don't have the time. But you only have to look at the pen swap that Doug organised, well in advance and plenty of time to do it.

Even though some really struggled to fit it in at the end. :wink:

Buckeye
07-01-16, 21:22
I believe it's only gone to 2 months as there is no third option Peter.

If there was a 3 or 4 months I think you would have found that it would have gone out further.

The one month option may as well not been there as I believe that the active forum members know too well how difficult it is to get an entry in.

Just my opinion.

Yes there are 2 choices, I don't see a problem with 1 every month, how long does it take to make a pen, but it does look like it will be 1 every 2 months and if it turns out that the competitions are not well subscribed then I suppose it will have to be looked at again.

I have lined up sponsorship with Phil Dart, DaveyGee and Dan and am waiting on a few more enquiries, but I don't want to abuse the generosity of the sponsors by offering 3 places regardless of the number of entries so I think it should be limited to a place per 6/7 entries with a maximum of 3 places.

The current segmenting competition will be sponsored by me and I will be offering Kits and blanks/wood and anything else I can think of as prizes for each placing using the above of 1 place per 6/7 entries.

Peter

chas_41_uk
07-01-16, 21:42
how long does it take to make a pen

Unfortunately Peter some of us have to work, we have families. We have small sheds, that we have to empty before we can get near the lathe. So at this time of year we can only get in the shed at weekends. Both days if we are lucky and don't have to do other things.

This weekend, I have to take the other half out on Saturday morning. Her son, daughter in law and grandson are coming up from Lincoln on Saturday afternoon. So that leaves me Sunday, and that is if it doesn't rain. The weather forecast says it is going to be dry with a chance of showers early afternoon. But the temperature is going to be 5deg with a wind chill of 1 deg so damn cold. Cutting segments and gluing them in the shed and then taking them into the house where it is warm for the glue to dry wont help.

So "How long does it take to make a pen"? It can be two to three weeks if everything is going against you.

Buckeye
07-01-16, 22:08
Unfortunately Peter some of us have to work, we have families. We have small sheds, that we have to empty before we can get near the lathe. So at this time of year we can only get in the shed at weekends. Both days if we are lucky and don't have to do other things.

This weekend, I have to take the other half out on Saturday morning. Her son, daughter in law and grandson are coming up from Lincoln on Saturday afternoon. So that leaves me Sunday, and that is if it doesn't rain. The weather forecast says it is going to be dry with a chance of showers early afternoon. But the temperature is going to be 5deg with a wind chill of 1 deg so damn cold. Cutting segments and gluing them in the shed and then taking them into the house where it is warm for the glue to dry wont help.

So "How long does it take to make a pen"? It can be two to three weeks if everything is going against you.

Yes it can be that long, but fortunately it doesn't always take that long. I understand about life getting in the way of fun and when it happens there is nothing you can do, that's life as they say. In the greater scheme of things a competition is neither here nor there, people can enter or not depending on circumstances.

If I want to turn something I have to spend about 40 minutes moving stuff around to get to one of the lathes. If it's something that needs to go on the metal lathe as well then that's more time, but I will only do it if I feel up to it and I can put on enough clothing to keep warm enough, so I understand that not everyone can make the deadline. When the planets align it's amazing what you can do in a couple of hours.

Peter

chas_41_uk
07-01-16, 22:13
When the planets align it's amazing what you can do in a couple of hours.

Roll on BST and brighter evenings :thumbs::wink:

Bill Mooney
07-01-16, 22:39
I voted for every 2 months but probably won't make every comp. I'll just do my best.

Pierre
07-01-16, 22:43
Erm as a newcomer forgive me for interrupting but....

Surely if you want to encourage competition then you should encourage the lesser confident by not initially making the competitions too 'Pushy' ie everyone can make a 7mm twist pen but when you come to segmented or kitless many may attempt but be unable to present their piece due to their own self denigration.

Might I suggest that the competitions start at the basic and work up so as to encourage self confidence in those who would like to take part but who may be shy or under confident. Once they have got there and then been added to the nucleus of competitors you can subsequently build up the competence and skill level. After all the reply to 'how do you eat an elephant?' has always been 'a little bit at a time'.

Yes I know that the very skilled among you may be champing at the bit to demonstrate your super duper many coloured double Celtic knot on a hexagonal spiral, but those of you who wish to do that, may 'knot' realise that your job is to encourage the lesser confident/competent/able/physically capable so as to keep this ancient artform in existence (not to mention keeping Jim in a website :goesred:)

Equally, you can have as many competitions as you like because not everyone has to enter them, just shape the competitions to match the skill set of the member's ie have a difficult one, one month and an easier one the next etc; I am sure that between the moderators you have enough ability and knowledge to define the differences .

Finally, not everyone can afford a rhodium plated super cigar pen in wood and acrylic with aluminium paste void filling so please keep in mind the cost of the overall pen as well.:praying:


PG

Phil Dart
08-01-16, 08:28
Well. I voted for two months as well, but only because I thought it the better of the two options given. However, if other time frames had been offered I would probably still have voted the same way.

I think the thing is that competitions serve to allow people to, well, compete, but looking at it from the other side of the counter as it were, they also serve the purposes of the forum to encourage participation. Since Jim's forum announcement, there is clearly a motivation to take the forum to the next level and this is a desirable and sensible part of it.

I don't really see the problem with bi-monthly - yes life gets in the way, and not all those with a desire to enter may be able to on every occasion either because of time constraints or because their skill set excludes them.

I think Pierre's words are quite wise though. The forum is meant to be inclusive, not exclusive, and I can see no harm in competitions of different sorts for different capabilities. A segmented pen in month 1 for instance can be offset by a slimline for those with less than a year's experience in month 3 maybe. A kitless pen in month 5 can be offset a stained wood sierra in month 7. And so on. There are over 1000 members of this forum, and although from time to time we read diatribes about how people never bother to take part, no-one ever takes any steps to encourage it. This may be one of those ways, and I have no doubt whatsoever that the thought has already occurred to the Gang of Four.

Yes Peter. Every other month. I would love to see you using competitions as a way of encouraging people out of the woodwork, and encouraging people to improve their skill set. I am also willing to put my money where my mouth is, as I have already said I am happy to sponsor competitions to help achieve both of those aims.

I'll enter the "Prettiest Pile of Shavings on the Floor" competition when it comes about (assuming I've got time)

AllenN
08-01-16, 08:43
Having never entered a competition for turning I am not really qualified to comment, but that has never stopped me before. I think once every two months is frequent enough, but there is no reason why the subject should not vary in complexity. sometimes a simpler project is more difficult simply because it requires something to differentiate ones entry from all the others. I say give it a go for a year to see how it pans out and then review any changes necessary.

Lons
08-01-16, 09:40
Just my thoughts on some of the last posts though I agree that it's a good idea to alternate simple with more challenging personally I probably wouldn't be motivated much by the simple ones though to support the organisers I still would try to enter.

One of the reasons stated for the comps is to challenge us to try something different which surely is the way to maintain and grow interest in our hobby. I would get very bored churning out slimlines and sierras and without the competitions would never have tried a closed end or segmented pen even though not up to the winners standard.

Even if a beginners results at a segmented pen are a failure at least they've given it a go and with encouragement the next would be better, without that push they might never try.

ataylor
08-01-16, 10:04
I have entered a couple of the comps in the past and if i can help with a suggestion that may help a few of the already points added. Instaed of adding the the entry unanimously why not allow the entry to be added so that we all know who is who, and we can vote on not only the look of the pen but also on knowing who it is and there skill level? But i think it is good to see the comps are back and for me a comp every month would be ideal, it gives the oppertunity to everyone to hit as many as they can over the year.

Buckeye
08-01-16, 11:08
Erm as a newcomer forgive me for interrupting but....

Surely if you want to encourage competition then you should encourage the lesser confident by not initially making the competitions too 'Pushy' ie everyone can make a 7mm twist pen but when you come to segmented or kitless many may attempt but be unable to present their piece due to their own self denigration.

Might I suggest that the competitions start at the basic and work up so as to encourage self confidence in those who would like to take part but who may be shy or under confident. Once they have got there and then been added to the nucleus of competitors you can subsequently build up the competence and skill level. After all the reply to 'how do you eat an elephant?' has always been 'a little bit at a time'.

Yes I know that the very skilled among you may be champing at the bit to demonstrate your super duper many coloured double Celtic knot on a hexagonal spiral, but those of you who wish to do that, may 'knot' realise that your job is to encourage the lesser confident/competent/able/physically capable so as to keep this ancient artform in existence (not to mention keeping Jim in a website :goesred:)

Equally, you can have as many competitions as you like because not everyone has to enter them, just shape the competitions to match the skill set of the member's ie have a difficult one, one month and an easier one the next etc; I am sure that between the moderators you have enough ability and knowledge to define the differences .

Finally, not everyone can afford a rhodium plated super cigar pen in wood and acrylic with aluminium paste void filling so please keep in mind the cost of the overall pen as well.:praying:


PG

It is good for newbies to enter competitions even if they feel they are out of their depth. Don't forget that there have been competitions here before so it is not the first one. If we dumb it down to allow new turners to feel comfortable what happens in two month time at the next competition do we dumb it down again for all the new turners who have joined in the meantime? There will always be new turners or people who are shy or lack confidence, maybe a competition only for new, shy and unconfident people could be slotted in the alternative months.

Derek, Dalboy gave a list of ideas for the competition and there wasn't a bad one amongst it, each one will be used as a theme in time, there will be plenty of opportunity for new turners to join in and I still think one every month will allow more people to enter the comps overall, but it looks like it will be every two months.

Peter

Buckeye
08-01-16, 11:17
Well. I voted for two months as well, but only because I thought it the better of the two options given. However, if other time frames had been offered I would probably still have voted the same way.

I think the thing is that competitions serve to allow people to, well, compete, but looking at it from the other side of the counter as it were, they also serve the purposes of the forum to encourage participation. Since Jim's forum announcement, there is clearly a motivation to take the forum to the next level and this is a desirable and sensible part of it.

I don't really see the problem with bi-monthly - yes life gets in the way, and not all those with a desire to enter may be able to on every occasion either because of time constraints or because their skill set excludes them.

I think Pierre's words are quite wise though. The forum is meant to be inclusive, not exclusive, and I can see no harm in competitions of different sorts for different capabilities. A segmented pen in month 1 for instance can be offset by a slimline for those with less than a year's experience in month 3 maybe. A kitless pen in month 5 can be offset a stained wood sierra in month 7. And so on. There are over 1000 members of this forum, and although from time to time we read diatribes about how people never bother to take part, no-one ever takes any steps to encourage it. This may be one of those ways, and I have no doubt whatsoever that the thought has already occurred to the Gang of Four.

Yes Peter. Every other month. I would love to see you using competitions as a way of encouraging people out of the woodwork, and encouraging people to improve their skill set. I am also willing to put my money where my mouth is, as I have already said I am happy to sponsor competitions to help achieve both of those aims.

I'll enter the "Prettiest Pile of Shavings on the Floor" competition when it comes about (assuming I've got time)


It would be nice to see new people enter the competitions, if they are too simple then others won't be bothered to enter, maybe I hit on the answer in my last post and have a competition every month where alternate months are only for turners with say under a year or 6 months experience, that way they could find their feet and still enter the other competition if they feel like upping their game.

Peter

Bob Ellis
08-01-16, 15:37
Judging from some of the comments, I suspect that the poll will give a false reading, not only because some people have voted for 2 months because their preferred option of 3 or 4 months is not available, but also because some (like me) didn't vote at all because they favoured a longer time interval than either of those available.

This isn't meant as a criticism, Peter, because I applaud what you are doing. I am merely suggesting that a poll with more options might give a clearer insight into members' preferences.

Buckeye
08-01-16, 18:31
Judging from some of the comments, I suspect that the poll will give a false reading, not only because some people have voted for 2 months because their preferred option of 3 or 4 months is not available, but also because some (like me) didn't vote at all because they favoured a longer time interval than either of those available.

This isn't meant as a criticism, Peter, because I applaud what you are doing. I am merely suggesting that a poll with more options might give a clearer insight into members' preferences.

I can understand that and nothing is written in stone apart from the maybe the segmenting one as it is too late to change that as I think some people have already started. Watch this space.

Peter

Jim
08-01-16, 19:25
Well it is good to see that we have stirred up some interest with the idea of reintroducing the competitions. Debate is good and we can learn from it so please keep the ideas coming .. :thumbs:

Penpal
08-01-16, 19:41
Confirming my thought longer between I remember our only pen swap so far all gung ho then so many comments that suggest the long prep time still caught up with memory etc .

Peter

GeordieB
08-01-16, 20:29
I am in the 1 every 2 month camp some very intresting Ideas guys I hope to enter most but like others dont always have the time :sob:

wm460
08-01-16, 22:58
I didn't vote as I said before I believe once a quarter is enough, will go in when I have time and weather permitting.:thinks:

newgiò
09-01-16, 16:28
nice idea ...... I prefer the competition every two months although it is difficult always to participate: : i pollici: