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To test or not to test

Maurice

Full Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Posts
89
Location
Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands
When you make a ballpoint or a rollerball a quick line across a sheet of paper tells us that it is working ok. However, what about a fountain pen? If you try it out by writing with it, is it still brand new or is it used?
If you buy a bog standard fountain pen from W H Smith for example this will not have been used. Do those of you who sell fountain pens try them out to ensure they are working or do you trust that the makers of the kit have got it right? It would be terrible if we made a fountain pen as a special gift and it didn’t work. But when does it stop being new and become used?
Just thought I would ask the question.
Happy turning.
 

Grump

Grand Master
Joined
Aug 17, 2013
Posts
10,504
Location
Stevenage
First Name
Brian
Never, never, ever try a fountain pen just don't even think about it never even touch another person pen full stop.
The moment you put ink in a fountain pen you declare it used, touch the nib to paper and it will never feel like their pen to someone else.
Each person has their own values and beliefs about what colour ink they use who has written with their beloved instrument etc
Every hand writes differently and wears the nib in its own direction.
Here endeth the first lesson in Penmanship.

Virginity is like a soapbubble, one prick and it is gone.
 

Jim

Grand Master
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Posts
15,617
Good question Maurice, this is something i had never given a thought to ... :whistling: I do believe Grump has just said it is best not to ... :thumbs:
 

Jimjam66

Chief Battonager
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Jan 27, 2013
Posts
3,775
Location
Basingstoke, Hampshire
I'm going to weigh in on the other side of this debate, scary as it is to cross Grump. If you make a bulbfiller or any pen that has a permanently attached ink sac, NEVER put ink in the sac. It is for the new owner to pop that particular cherry ... However, cartridge and cartridge converter pens should be tested, as should any fountain pen. Use a cartridge or converter that you won't leave in the pen, and wash the feed and nib out thoroughly afterward the n leave overnight to dry. If it's a bulbfiller then 'dip' the nib like a quill pen to test before washing out.

I always include a few lines of text written with the pen when I ship it. I tested a Jr Gent once and the feed housing was damaged - wouldn't have known that until the (by then irate) customer called if I hadn't tested it first!
:sob:
 

Grump

Grand Master
Joined
Aug 17, 2013
Posts
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Stevenage
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Brian
Oh how I wish George could read this, I can hear his words ringing loud and clear now.
You tucha ma pen I slita you throata Muthaf****a.
Let the customer test it before taking it away, sit them at skiver with finely tuned writting instrument, good quality writting parchment, blottier and wrist rest.
Let the customer be the judge of their new accouterment, be prepared to replace or replenish any disagreements the client may have.
Allow the Gentleman for it will be a gentleman, who would desire such a purchase and not his partner to whom would not require such fine jewellery for shopping lists be the judge of any if there possibly could be impediments.
Should the said gentleman client find any impediment that such as may catch the vendor by surprise so as not to be prepared for such incident then a firm and swiftly carried out karate chop to the gentlemans jugular should be administered.


Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 

edlea

Lobbygobbler
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Aug 1, 2013
Posts
4,693
Location
Blackpool
First Name
Ed
On my web site I sell new fountain pens as well as restored vintage pens. As an extra service to my customers I dip test all my new fountain pens and if necessary I adjust the feed and nib tines to ensure that my customers have a perfect writing experience from the off. In around 25 percent of cases nibs and or feed will need some adjustment, most only a minor one. All my customers accept this and are reassured by it and thank me for this extra service which I offer them. I will be offering the same service on any fountain pen that I make myself.

Ed
 

rowdyyates115

It's Showtime.....
Registered
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Posts
2,155
Location
Portsmouth, UK
On my web site I sell new fountain pens as well as restored vintage pens. As an extra service to my customers I dip test all my new fountain pens and if necessary I adjust the feed and nib tines to ensure that my customers have a perfect writing experience from the off. In around 25 percent of cases nibs and or feed will need some adjustment, most only a minor one. All my customers accept this and are reassured by it and thank me for this extra service which I offer them. I will be offering the same service on any fountain pen that I make myself.

Ed

Come on then post your web site address:thumbs:
 

silver

General dogsbody
Executive Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2013
Posts
6,301
Location
Somewhere in Staffordshire,
First Name
Eamonn.
Now I'm the same as Brian, ( not because I don't like to disagree :winking:) the mostly important thing here is "trust" with your customer, if they are irate then have you explained things correctly?

I have done quite a few fountain pens and never had a complain.. Yes I have had some problems with nib feeds and the like, but you make sure the customer Is happy. Prior to taking any money explain that it needs testing first.

My point is don't, never, diddly squat, ever put, ink in to the fountain pen unless you are the customer..:kiss:
 

Woody

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Jul 12, 2013
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at home
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no
I have never even given it a thought nor had a complaint must be just plane lucky
 

Grump

Grand Master
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Posts
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Stevenage
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Brian
Ask yourself one simple small tiny little question.
Would you buy from this man?
Now ask another, would you buy a new pen that had been written with?
Would you buy a pen that had ink already in it?
If the answer is yes then go ahead and use that mans ink to write the cheque you will pay him with.
My answer is no to all of the above you won't be selling me a pen with ink in nor one that I know you have used.
You certainly won't mug me off by advertising it to me.
 

bluntchisel

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Sep 2, 2013
Posts
3,849
Location
Kent, UK.
First Name
Bob
Yes, I agree with Brian - a fountain pen is particular to its owner. I let the buyer charge the pen before leaving if that is their wish, but I never would. Besides, once the pen is charged you need to sell it in a short space of time or the ink will dry and clog up the works!
Bob.
 

edlea

Lobbygobbler
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Blackpool
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Ed
Surely no one in their right mind would fully load up a pen ink converter or snap on a cartridge and proceed to write with it before selling. I suppose it is different also if you have your customer face to face where you can explain that all new nibs especially the Chinese IPG nib..... which is used in the majority of
kit pens..... are not always spot on. Selling as I do via the internet one doesn't have the opportunity to have a 'face to face' with the buyer to explain to them that this particular Chinese wonder on the end of their imminent purchase could be knackered ,even before they put pen to paper. Consequently nib/feed checking by just dipping the nib in the ink ,testing that it writes without any problems is a common added service carried out buy internet sellers worldwide ; which customers seem grateful for. By only dipping the nib for testing, any remaining ink left on the nib is easily flushed away with running water. I offer a worldwide no quibble guarantee with all of my stock, offering a full refund, even refunding all postal charges if a problem is found to be my fault that the customer is not satisfied. A pen with a scratchy nib coming back from say Aussie or New Zealand would very expensive as well as time consuming. After all the opposition on this thread regarding this issue I will still continue to offer this service as I feel that it would be folly not to.

I get mi coat...

Ed
 

Grump

Grand Master
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Stevenage
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Testing a nib by dipping is different to charging it with ink and writing with it certainly showing paragraphs written with that pen.
I would suggest that a dip test could be carried out but would not advertise the fact that I had done such a thing.
That to me would show an insecurity or lack of confidence in my work, if I wasn't confident I would not bother making the item for sale.
 

Jimjam66

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Jan 27, 2013
Posts
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Location
Basingstoke, Hampshire
So Maurice, to sum up: we all agree that you SHOULD test the pen before sending it to a customer. (Grump took a while to come round, but finally agreed.). I should add that I think Ed and I both answered from the perspective of distance selling, not having the customer sitting in front of you.

What we disagree on is HOW/WHAT to test. A dip test (the maximum intervention suggested by Ed and Grump) tests ONLY the nib. Ed suggested that it tests the feed as well, but patently it cannot, because the feed, by definition, feeds ink from the reservoir. To satisfactorily test the feed you must 'feed' ink through it. Hence the reason I attach and fill a cartridge converter. (Ed, you and my wife would get on well, she thinks I'm not in my right mind either! :funny:). All jokes aside, to clean a dip-tested pen you have to attach a converter in any case (or a squeeze-bulb, which is in effect the same thing). Whether it had ink in it before you filled it with water to clean the pen seems to me to be academic - I'm not really getting the Mea Culpa's from Grump and Ed. :nooidea:

Concern that the ink might clog the pen seems to me to be just an admission that you don't know how to clean a fountain pen properly. If that's the case you're a turner, not a pen maker. No shame in that, but I'm a pen maker - not a turner.

Why do I write with the pen and then send a writing sample to the client along with the pen? Because I am a creator of fine WRITING instruments, and each instrument that passes through my hands will demonstrably be just that before I part with it. To do any less would be to me a dereliction of my duty as both an artist and a craftsman. To Grump it shows insecurity, to me it shows dedication to my art - something my clients both appreciate and rely on. (As an aside, I recently bought a metal lathe. In the box was a test report showing that the lathe had been run in the factory and various tolerances tested and shown to be within tolerance. Did I send the lathe back when I saw it? Or did I feel reassured that I had a thoroughly tested and functional piece of kit? You decide.)

Now you choose your position in this debate! Have fun! :thumbs:
 

edlea

Lobbygobbler
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4,693
Location
Blackpool
First Name
Ed
So Maurice, to sum up: we all agree that you SHOULD test the pen before sending it to a customer. (Grump took a while to come round, but finally agreed.). I should add that I think Ed and I both answered from the perspective of distance selling, not having the customer sitting in front of you.

What we disagree on is HOW/WHAT to test. A dip test (the maximum intervention suggested by Ed and Grump) tests ONLY the nib. Ed suggested that it tests the feed as well, but patently it cannot, because the feed, by definition, feeds ink from the reservoir. To satisfactorily test the feed you must 'feed' ink through it. Hence the reason I attach and fill a cartridge converter. (Ed, you and my wife would get on well, she thinks I'm not in my right mind either! :funny:). All jokes aside, to clean a dip-tested pen you have to attach a converter in any case (or a squeeze-bulb, which is in effect the same thing). Whether it had ink in it before you filled it with water to clean the pen seems to me to be academic - I'm not really getting the Mea Culpa's from Grump and Ed. :nooidea:

Concern that the ink might clog the pen seems to me to be just an admission that you don't know how to clean a fountain pen properly. If that's the case you're a turner, not a pen maker. No shame in that, but I'm a pen maker - not a turner.

Why do I write with the pen and then send a writing sample to the client along with the pen? Because I am a creator of fine WRITING instruments, and each instrument that passes through my hands will demonstrably be just that before I part with it. To do any less would be to me a dereliction of my duty as both an artist and a craftsman. To Grump it shows insecurity, to me it shows dedication to my art - something my clients both appreciate and rely on. (As an aside, I recently bought a metal lathe. In the box was a test report showing that the lathe had been run in the factory and various tolerances tested and shown to be within tolerance. Did I send the lathe back when I saw it? Or did I feel reassured that I had a thoroughly tested and functional piece of kit? You decide.)

Now you choose your position in this debate! Have fun! :thumbs:


David I my defence regarding testing the feed I maybe should have said ' Checking the feed for correct alignment' and, coincidently, I had to straighten the feed on my recently made prototype Roman Harvest 'Wedding Pen' .
 

Grump

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Posts
10,504
Location
Stevenage
First Name
Brian
Why do I feel like my words are being manipulated and why should you take any notice of me anyway?
I am just a stupid old git innit?
You as the creator can do whatever you want with your pen until its sold.
You won't be selling it to me so what the hell do I care.
it would be a good experiment to set up two websites one adverising they tamper with your goods before shipping them and another that doesn't and see which one gets the most sales.
Having said that does anyone get many sales from their website and if so how, what is the trick you use?
Sorry that should be a seperate thread question really but just curoius
 

Jim

Grand Master
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Posts
15,617
On my web site I sell new fountain pens as well as restored vintage pens. As an extra service to my customers I dip test all my new fountain pens and if necessary I adjust the feed and nib tines to ensure that my customers have a perfect writing experience from the off. In around 25 percent of cases nibs and or feed will need some adjustment, most only a minor one. All my customers accept this and are reassured by it and thank me for this extra service which I offer them. I will be offering the same service on any fountain pen that I make myself.

Ed

Come on then post your web site address:thumbs:

Yes, let us see it Ed, and to anyone else who has one ... :kiss: Plus if you do have a site you can add it to the links page in the top navbar ... :thumbs:
 

Jim

Grand Master
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Posts
15,617
On my web site I sell new fountain pens as well as restored vintage pens. As an extra service to my customers I dip test all my new fountain pens and if necessary I adjust the feed and nib tines to ensure that my customers have a perfect writing experience from the off. In around 25 percent of cases nibs and or feed will need some adjustment, most only a minor one. All my customers accept this and are reassured by it and thank me for this extra service which I offer them. I will be offering the same service on any fountain pen that I make myself.

Ed

I can see both sides of the debate and I suppose if you make a rollerball or a biro you would try it as a matter of course!!!!!

Funny you said this Terry, i only ever test the rollerball ... :thinks:
 
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