Crossroads in Life.

Hi all , thanks for the get well wishes recently.
With the threat of being retired early on ill health ,
is it possible to maintain a steady cash flow from woodturning from selling in craft fayres, on line shopping ETC to supplement my pension if I am retired off early..

Any help and advice in this situation will be most appreciated,
I will still be woodturning regardless for the love and happiness it gives me when I create something that is beautiful or functional.
regards
john

Look at Woody theres a man with get up and go he is running a stall and he make all his own stock chat to him.

John, I'm sure you could make some beer money at the very least by getting your pens seen around and being at craft fairs etc. making them is not the difficult bit - selling them is! Philh is one to speak to about that side of things.

Jimjam66 said:

John, I'm sure you could make some beer money at the very least by getting your pens seen around and being at craft fairs etc. making them is not the difficult bit - selling them is! Philh is one to speak to about that side of things.

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Speak to Neil as well, but he does have to travel extensively to make a penny or 2.

Yes it is possible but most of the people who make a living out of woodturning do so by demonstrating to other turners, writing for magazines and selling stuff to other turners. Even professionals like Richard Findley demonstrate and write to supplement their main income.

If you cost your products properly and price them accordingly you can make a profit but a lot of the people I see at craft fairs and selling stuff online, not just turners but all sorts of craftspeople seem to underestimate their costs and fail to take into account all sorts of overheads etc.

Materials cost plus a few coppers "profit" is going to make you a loss. Here are a few things you need to take into account:

Your time (it isn't free it has an opportunity cost)

Workshop power light and heat.

Depreciation of tools and machinery

Cost of consumables (adhesives finishes etc.)

Selling costs (website costs, rental of stalls, gallery fees)

Profit (that's why you are doing this isn't it?)

If you want to generate an income (rather than fooling yourself into thinking you are) then you need to operate like a small business. I could write a book about it but several people already have. Here is a link to an Australian site that explains the basic principles quite concisely.

http://www.pfga.org.au/content/Pricing___Costing_for_Small_Business.pdf

This may seem a lot to think about, but if you actually want to generate a supplementary income you really need to be sure you are doing just that and not throwing money away by selling stuff for less than your costs of production.

Walter

I wish it were simple but having been in business I would choose not to do it again.
Set up costs and establishment time doesn't happen overnight, your first year is the worst and often the last.
It's one thing having fun and turning a few bob to suppliment your hobby but totally different to supplimenting an income.
I have some serious thinking to do myself having given my notice to my full time job and having nothing to go to I could regret what I have done.

I think it all depends on how much money you're expecting to make really. I would think that it would take some time to build up a business whereby you're making and selling a lot of pens. I currently sell my pens in 2 shops and am just setting up an online shop. Maybe oneday when I retire I'll just do pens and make the amount I want as I would hate to be in a position whereby I had to make them; it would ruin my hobby.

As Walter says you've got to get the pricing right too if you sell you're pens cheap then they're seen as cheap pens.

Grump said:

I could regret what I have done.

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Your health &, well I was going to say sanity but we all know you are insane, come first Brian. No point being in a job that is detrimental to your health.

I have 2 shops that are selling for me in Deep South/West Wales , they are making me a small profit but has limited footfall,
not many sales online at present.
If I do retire , then I would be able to attend the craft fairs and hopefully push up sales that way, whilst still giving me time to enjoy what I do best and that is creating items/gifts to enjoy.
I will have a modest pension and was only looking for say £400/£600 a month profit to supplement my pension and also keep me sane from boredom.
Problem at the moment is that I have too much time on my hands and unable to make anything , will be back in the workshop in a fortnight, gradually building up the stock levels

£7200 profit per year equates to a heafty turnover needed to cover all of your costs... I prefer to keep my turning as nothing more than a hobby if any of my pens sell then that's OK; if they don't then so be it and they will make good gifts for family and friends.

Grump said:

I wish it were simple but having been in business I would choose not to do it again.
Set up costs and establishment time doesn't happen overnight, your first year is the worst and often the last.
It's one thing having fun and turning a few bob to suppliment your hobby but totally different to supplimenting an income.
I have some serious thinking to do myself having given my notice to my full time job and having nothing to go to I could regret what I have done.

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I doubt you'll regret it, Brian - that place was crushing the life out of you. Whatever happens you will be happier and healthier. Good on you!

Wow, In 1972 I bit the bullet and left my career to buy and operate, living above the premises with 6 growing children I found people like you and I who enjoy something as a hobby all with an angle out there pulling the rug from under me. Even the guy who came every day for the then huge firm Kodak was supporting guys who would for free attend a wedding then go to my so called best mate the daily visitor who would process and print almost wet negatives and take the results back to the reception and sell their pics heck try doing that for a living. They had secure jobs all bad mouthing me to seek advantage even trying it on with people I was hired to cover their wedding, then every one had a camera and tried to stand on top of us to take pics so as to take our knowledge away from us. Even the Chemists in this city took free pics of children and then gave them the negatives as well. I was pestered to advertise on bus stands, support every charity and organisation in christendom. In the five years we were there we never took a salary or paid ourselves a percentage for owning the premises our car full expenses every Church in town had a free request, historical Societies reckoned we were fair game. Sure learned a lot what with becoming for four and a half years an unpaid Alderman on the City council and also the whole area Electricity Authority Councillor ( another third tier of Govt). An executive on 27 large often huge charitable organisations Patron of some, an active visiting Mason, Church leader with lots of commitments.

With the kids hiving off one to Sydney one to Canberra, one to Hawaii to University. OK on a good day the sun shone brightly the world looked rosy and heck I had the advantage of tons of enthusiasm, trust but there were dark days to cope with as well.

Now your thought is to maybe turn over some extra money well it takes money to earn money how strong will you be in body and mind will you compete or try to plunder, have you financial security etc etc. Choose wisely mate you will be on your own out there a real number of times looking carefully at the equity of what you do and will be subject to a lot of stress. There is no pot of Gold at the end of the rainbow for most of us sad but true.

Please enjoy whatever choice you make but weigh it up carefully that grass on the other side of the fence dries up in hard times.

Kind regards Peter.

To be honest my turning is just a hobby it is something I just play at I point blank refuse to do it as a business at the expense of my hobby yes at times I do sell quite a bit but other times nothing like today a whole day and only sold two bowls I am in the fortunate position I dont need to supplement my income I do it just for fun I enjoy the crack of it and meeting people but if I did have to I dont think woodturning would be my choice I dont know of any turner who makes there total income from there turnings alone like Walter said turning, demonstrating, writing and teaching and for that to happen you need a lot of time to build up a good reputation in the woodturning world
Going by the craft fair rout OK but live out of a suit case every weekend travelling up and down the country sleeping in strange places like tents do yourself a favour talk to stall holders and most will tell you craft fairs are on there way out and the only people who really make a good living from it are the organisers.
Also you will need to invest quite a bit of cash on your set up and insurances and not just one insurance which organizers wont let you set up if you dont have any also your car / van will have to be changed to business use and insured as such then you will need an accountant keep records oh Im getting an headache just thinking about it
But whatever you decide I wish you all the very best

Woody,

Spot on with one exception.

Bollocks to the tent. lifes too short to live in a supermarket bag. I spend about 40% of my life in a transit panel van that has a loo, shower, hot water, cooker, heater, TV, and no wife, hoover or furniture polish. Pitch fees at fairs of all types are going up as the wonderful government has had another spark of absolute inspirational brilliance and the numbskulls that they are have decided to charge VAT on pitch fees. Oh great, that'll really put the mockers on the craft/game and country fair part of our culture. Muppets. cretins,and imbeciles, the whole lot, couldn't manage a nursery let alone a country.

On the issue of life in a transit panel van, which I hasten to add is not a white van man type of thing, The income derived from driving around the country like a mad man might not put me in line for the Sunday Times Rich list but I stand a chance of outliving most. I haven't been near the M25 in 6 months, havent paid the congestion charge, seen a Boris bike, or had a text message on a Sunday from a tosser of a sales manager wanting a weekly sales forecast and my blood pressure is down and I dont argue with the wife. My income might be down but my quality of life is up.

Well it was, until this afternoon when I was manning my stall and I was approached by a moron disguised as a poor attempt for human who looked at my stand, scanned it from side to side, and then asked me "Do you sell anything else?" I cordially asked him what he had in mind, and resisted the temptation to add, "What do you have in mind Sir? A full wedgewood tea service or a Mk 2 Cortina perhaps?" He said that he wanted to buy some blotting paper. At that point I did lose the will to live and told him that I would just check with Goods In and see if I had any on the stand. He didn't get that and duly disappeared.

Just got back from the weekend away, a very successful one and have two days to recoup and rebuild stocks before the biggest fair of the year.

Good on yer Neil hope you do well if anyone deserves it you do mate with all the effort you put in

Good luck Neil Hope the biggest fair of the year fills the coffers for ya init?

Yep, have a good un Chunky, hope it goes well

Three times in my life I have let a "hobby" turn into a "business". I am determined NOT to let that happen to woodturning. Pretty soon, instead of "Oh, I'm going to go out and turn something fun today!" it becomes "Oh crap, I have to turn twenty more pens before the weekend." Then it ceases to be fun and becomes work. I'm retired, thank you! I make a bit from pen/turning sales, a bit from the royalties from my cookbook, a bit from my part time computer consulting, and they are all still FUN.

Sharon

Peter, one of those hobbies that turned into a business was photography. I made good money, but I got so burned out that I didn't pick up a camera for ten years.

I only attempt to sell my pens on the approach to Xmas, and income will depend on venue, was it well-advertised, weather, and how much money is about. I wouldn't even attempt to estimate my potential income. Two years ago I took £900 in just three sales. This year so far, it's been bloody dismal! My view is simply to hope to recover your costs - everything else is a bonus - including the pure pleasure of turning pens!!!

Bob.

sbwertz said:

I am determined NOT to let that happen to woodturning. Pretty soon, instead of "Oh, I'm going to go out and turn something fun today!" it becomes "Oh crap, I have to turn twenty more pens before the weekend." Then it ceases to be fun and becomes work.

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Sharon, i share the same sentiments ...

I have turned down work from Reps at work asking if i would make them pens carrying their logo's .. And believe it or not a shop in York asking if i would to a sale or return .. But this is a hobby and i will go into my shed when i am happy to go in, not because i have to ...