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Beware buying logs

Penpal

Grand Master
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Peter
Until you trim, cut shape look for pen blanks your most expensive purchase can be useless. Buy cut blanks if you can.

Pics show the two of four ways of looking at timber before confirming its value to you.

One pr of blanks cut on the cross from another two pieces of timber around a hundred yrs old.

Kind regards Peter.:down::goesred::thumbs:
 

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Neil

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Peter,
Can't agree with you about a preference for buying pre cut blanks. I think you point is that you can get a lot of waste from DIY blanks. The diyer, of which I am a big fan, buys or obtains their logs at relatively low price or even free. Those who cut their own blanks will benefit from learning more about the raw material, many turners I come across haven't come across a bit of laburnum with the bark on. Is your picture of Honduran log wood? Cutting your own has the benefit of learning about your timber, for instance, log wood is early strong colour which was used as a source of fabric dyes in Central America. It is also very susceptible to heart rot, which if your photo is of log wood, this bears out.

The cut blank market insists on selling pre cut blanks at around 130 - 150 mm long. This is in itself very wasteful of top quality wood. Taking an example of a uk domestic timber, Yew, blanks that are offered on the pre cut market are in the main poor quality.

If you buy or acquire logs there is a lot of waste produced in getting to the blank stage. That has to be paid for one way or another regardless of who does the work. One benefit of the cut your own method is that you can cut according to the pens you are making, a 12mm blank for a slimline and a 25mm for a chairmans gentle men's etc.

The risk in cutting your own from logs, the time taken with the extra drying process is more than compensated for in the surprises that you'll get when you open up a log. I wouldn't dream of buying any salted beech blanks, I get a wet log, free, lay it out of sight in the back garden,cover it in a couple of bags of forest floor, turn it every two months and after 16 to 18 months you have your own copious supply, free - if you have a bandsaw!
 

yorkshireman

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Interesting advice as always Neil. When you say forest floor do you mean moss, leaf mould etc
 

silver

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Some superb colours and nice marking on that wood Peter..

I agree with Neil, cutting your own blanks does give you a better understanding and choice of wood you want. But not everyone has the tools of money to finance them to do it themselves.

Buying pre cut blanks is a good option, possibly not the cheapest in the long run but has little or no outlay.

Much the same as Neil, I have got some cherry and hawthorn in the "spalting pit" at the moment waiting for nature to take its toll on it. But again not everyone has the space to do that themselves, even if they leave it in the forest or woodland floor, you are at risk of someone else staking it. I know that happened to me:vangry:
 

Penpal

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Peter,
Can't agree with you about a preference for buying pre cut blanks. I think you point is that you can get a lot of waste from DIY blanks. The diyer, of which I am a big fan, buys or obtains their logs at relatively low price or even free. Those who cut their own blanks will benefit from learning more about the raw material, many turners I come across haven't come across a bit of laburnum with the bark on. Is your picture of Honduran log wood? Cutting your own has the benefit of learning about your timber, for instance, log wood is early strong colour which was used as a source of fabric dyes in Central America. It is also very susceptible to heart rot, which if your photo is of log wood, this bears out.

The cut blank market insists on selling pre cut blanks at around 130 - 150 mm long. This is in itself very wasteful of top quality wood. Taking an example of a uk domestic timber, Yew, blanks that are offered on the pre cut market are in the main poor quality.

If you buy or acquire logs there is a lot of waste produced in getting to the blank stage. That has to be paid for one way or another regardless of who does the work. One benefit of the cut your own method is that you can cut according to the pens you are making, a 12mm blank for a slimline and a 25mm for a chairmans gentle men's etc.

The risk in cutting your own from logs, the time taken with the extra drying process is more than compensated for in the surprises that you'll get when you open up a log. I wouldn't dream of buying any salted beech blanks, I get a wet log, free, lay it out of sight in the back garden,cover it in a couple of bags of forest floor, turn it every two months and after 16 to 18 months you have your own copious supply, free - if you have a bandsaw!

Neil I see where you are coming from mate I wish you could see my timber stash and blank stash my attempt was to get on with turning rather than the milling side if you want to avoid the cutting, drying selecting etc. Now the particular timber I refer to has cost me ever so dearly over the years the termites love it as much or more than I do and mature versions of this timber are full of termite damage. Its amost impossible to tell and I agree when you find it is quite a revelation to be enjoyed. I look forward to turning the two blanks in the pics cut across the grain.

What we as pen makers do face is that nearly all dealers have first dibs on outstanding blanks that never see the showroom floor. Guess I have been spoilt with my past and now providers who know and select for me at a distance the reject rate is there but less of it.

The timber in my pics commonly called Conkerberry is a member of the Carrissa family namely Lanceolata only found in some places in the north and west of Australia is covered in thorns acts as a respite for snakes etc getting rarer as we speak. I have received some beaut stuff in small amounts in this last year the previous guys have cut their losses and given up the chase.

Luck for you is home spalting easily acheived in your climate but much care from a health practice ie the OH&S aspects can cause serious health probs as well.

Have fun either way wish I did not have to downsize as well.

Kind regards mate. Peter.:thumbs:
 

paulm

grave manibus faciendum
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Lovely blanks and some good info gained on this thread. I'm off to bury the mother in law... oops I mean a log or two.
 

Neil

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Hi Peter, didn't know it was conkerberry but when I looked at it on the PC (as opposed to the Ipad) I could see that it wasnt Logwood, the bark is too thick! If you've got a problem with your timber stock we could arrange a visitat to relieve you of some of the problem!!
 

yorkshireman

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Yes Keith, anything semi decomposed, it helps to scour the bark, I normally do this with the chain saw but it isnt essential, just helps the bacteriaq get into the wood quicker.

Thanks Neil, I've got plenty of Yew, Holly, Hawthorn, Chestnut and Oak that was cut late this year so I'll try with a proportion of it.
 

Neil

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Keith,

Might have misled you there, if the chestnut you have is horse chesnut, Aesculus Hippocastanum, as opposed to Sweet Chestnut (Castanea Sativa), it will spalt, the latter wont. The Aesculus Chestnut is the same species as Buckeye Burl, but dont expect to get the same results! Buckeye burl goes the colour it does, something to do with the mineral content and the climate in Ohio.

The durability scale of wood rates from, Class 1 Very Durable, Class 2 Durable, Class 3 Moderately Durable. Class 4 Slightly Durable, Class 5 not durable. To give you some examples, Oak (and Yew) is Class 2, Teak Class 1, Western Red Cedar USA Grown Class 2, UK grown Class 3, Elm Class 4 and these are Class 5 (Not Durable or rots like hell!!) Beech, Sycamore, Plane, birch, ash, alder.

The sapwood of those in Class 1 to 4 will spalt but getting it in a useable condition is fairly rare and frankly a waste of time laying down wood to try and get it to spalt, if it happens to be on a piece you buy lucky you but its not normally that dramatic.
 

lignaterrae

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Interesting thread. The subject of timber durability (that is, susceptibility to destruction by wood-rotting fungi - not 'hard wearing' qualities) is a huge subject in itself.
Been years since I read the papers but I think the usual title for Class 4 is 'Non-durable' and Class 5 ' Perishable'. The durability rating is established by taking 50mm x 50mm stake comprising all heartwood and sinking it partly into ground then assessing its lifespan.
Years ago I did an experiment along similar lines. I took those sample sizes in birch. whitewood (spruce), tantalised whitewood, English oak and greenheart, stuck them in the soil at the bottom of my garden and left them for 5 years. At the end of that time, the results were interesting and correlated closely to the published durability ratings;

Birch: Completely disappeared, had rotted completely. Only evidenced by a patch of soil that was slightly browner than surroundings.
Whitewood: Hardly better than the birch but there were a few sodden,punky slivers left. It had ceased to become timber
Tanalised whitewood; Not much better, it had rotted much more than expected, probably due to the exposed non-treated end grain. Areas where tanalith had penetrated reasonably well weren't too bad but they were sodden and lacked any strength.
Oak;. Very good. Much of the surface had started to degenerate, cracking into small, shallow squares but it was still strong and serviceable and had many more years of life in it.
Greenheart; Quite astonishing. It was completely unchanged from the day it started, save from a few cracks caused by being in sunlight. Completely vindicated this timber's reputation for ultra-durability. It gave me the impression that it was nigh-indestructible.

I've thought about doing more experiments like this but life's too short!
 

Neil

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Been years since I read the papers but I think the usual title for Class 4 is 'Non-durable' and Class 5 ' Perishable'. The durability rating is established by taking 50mm x 50mm stake comprising all heartwood and sinking it partly into ground then assessing its lifespan.
Years ago I did an experiment along similar lines.

Dave,

The durability definitions are Class 4 Slightly Durable, Class 5 Not Durable, BS350 1994 refers! The actual method of test is described in Technical standard 15083.

Keith,

Beech, Birch, Chestnut, Holly rot like hell and will display spalt patterns, As for the Oak, you'll spalt first!
 
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