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Micromesh v Burnishing Cream

Walter

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In a thread somewhere recently Neil asked whether it was possible to equate burnishing cream to a grit of backed abrasive such as micromesh.

This interested me so I asked Terry Smart at Chestnut Products if it was possible to give an equivalent.

Terry replied that there are so many variables in place that it's really not possible to give Burnishing Cream an accurate grit rating.
However, because of the way it is used they would expect that it will be finer than most backed abrasives.

He also suggested that I experiment by using the micromesh on an item then using the Burnishing Cream to see what difference, if any, resulted. I have done so and here are my observations which I have also shared with Terry. The findings are purely subjective as I have no means of accurately measuring the reflectivity of the finished surface.

I turned a piece of acrylic to about 10mm diameter and finished it with various grades of abrasive to a matt surface finishing at 600 grit.

I then polished it with 1800, 3600, 6000 and 12000 grit micromesh. This produced a finish that I would consider good enough not to require further polishing.

I then polished the work again with burnishing cream. In my, purely subjective, opinion this gave a slight improvement to the gloss.

I then re-sanded the piece with 600 grit and finished it using only 1800 grit micromesh followed by burnishing cream. This gave a finish that I was unable to distinguish from the finish produced by working through several grits of micromesh and then burnishing cream.

My conclusion is that subjectively burnishing cream gives a slightly higher gloss to the finished work than 12000 grit micromesh but the main advantage is that burnishing cream can be used straight from 1500 or 1800 grit micromesh (and possibly straight from 600 grit abrasive although I have not tried this) to produce a fine finish without working through all the grits.

It would be interesting to measure the reflectivity of the finished surfaces with some kind of optical instrument but I have neither the knowledge nor the resources to attempt this.

I hope you find this of some interest.
 

paulm

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Thank you Walter, your findings are very interesting.

I have been using burnishing cream for quite a while now and this is what I do with wood or acrylic or corian.

1. sand with 400 (Rhynogrip)
2. sand with 600 (Abronet)
3. apply ca
4. wet and dry with 1200 (from a car place)
5. polish with burnishing cream

My reasons for using Rhynogrip is because it lasts for a long time and in my opinion is good. I've tried others but always come back to Rhynogrip. I use Abronet because it lasts forever and the older it gets the finer it gets so when I use a new bit its 600 but it wears away and after a while is probably more like 1200 which puts a nice sheen on the item.

With this I get, in my opinion a super finish although I've started using autoglym (because it was in the shed) instead of burnishing cream and I'm very happy with the results.
 

Neil

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In a thread somewhere recently Neil asked whether it was possible to equate burnishing cream to a grit of backed abrasive such as micromesh.

This interested me so I asked Terry Smart at Chestnut Products if it was possible to give an equivalent.

Terry replied that there are so many variables in place that it's really not possible to give Burnishing Cream an accurate grit rating.
However, because of the way it is used they would expect that it will be finer than most backed abrasives.

He also suggested that I experiment by using the micromesh on an item then using the Burnishing Cream to see what difference, if any, resulted. I have done so and here are my observations which I have also shared with Terry. The findings are purely subjective as I have no means of accurately measuring the reflectivity of the finished surface.

I turned a piece of acrylic to about 10mm diameter and finished it with various grades of abrasive to a matt surface finishing at 600 grit.

I then polished it with 1800, 3600, 6000 and 12000 grit micromesh. This produced a finish that I would consider good enough not to require further polishing.

I then polished the work again with burnishing cream. In my, purely subjective, opinion this gave a slight improvement to the gloss.

I then re-sanded the piece with 600 grit and finished it using only 1800 grit micromesh followed by burnishing cream. This gave a finish that I was unable to distinguish from the finish produced by working through several grits of micromesh and then burnishing cream.

My conclusion is that subjectively burnishing cream gives a slightly higher gloss to the finished work than 12000 grit micromesh but the main advantage is that burnishing cream can be used straight from 1500 or 1800 grit micromesh (and possibly straight from 600 grit abrasive although I have not tried this) to produce a fine finish without working through all the grits.

It would be interesting to measure the reflectivity of the finished surfaces with some kind of optical instrument but I have neither the knowledge nor the resources to attempt this.

I hope you find this of some interest.

Walter,

This is interesting. I have made a number of corian pens in the last few days and have used 180/240/320/400/600 wet and dry and then micromesh to 12000. This have a good shine that was not improved, in my opinion by Burnishing cream.

I found my 800/1000/1200 wet and dry in the depths of my workshop and used this as well and it improved the finish. I inadvertently turned the sanding speed down to around 800 and used burnishing cream and odd though it may seem I could appreciate a better "pull" on the towel on which I was applying the cream which was logically, the friction between the towel and the corian (and it wasnt bone dry but still impregnated with a viable amount of burnishing cream). This improved the shine - I think!

I havent managed to find any recommended spinning speeds for the use of micromesh but assume that the faster the speed the less the material is able to remove the smallest of imperfections and thereby polishing it, and have found that lower speeds produce a better finish? Interested on your thoughts.
 

Pete B

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Hi Walter,

thus is interesting.
Firstly i do sell the stuff i am about to plug, well i have a box of it, so in a small way.
Just comparing burnishing cream with micromesh might not be the full answer and there are other products such as hut etc.

I started using Farecla because it was recommended to me by quite a renowned fountain pen dealer/expert who also has made pens in the past.
I have compared the finish with a jewelers loupe (i don't have the knowledge either), between mictomesh and burnishing cream, and between farecla two part, but not against hut products, but the Hut route is more expensive.
All i can say is that the results under a loupe are finer scratches. To the naked eye the finish is what i was told it would be, brighter, deeper and more appealing.

The two part farecla loosely cover from 600-800 to about 1200-1500 and the following product from about 1400 to 3000 grit when compared to standard wet and dry.
Its used primarily by the Aviation and marine industries, they do make products for cars similar to t cut etc.

I only started to sell it after i used it and now only use this.

The advantages are i think that it is very quick, especially if you re sanding routine uses the trick of stapling together your sheet abrasives, such as wet and dry or whatever.

Jim, if this if too much of a plug please tell me and i will delete it.

Walter this is very interesting as i do know someone who can do an almost scientific analysis, well i can ask them to check certain things that i give them to test in a controlled way as they have the equipment, i should know how to do it as many moons ago i was a lab technician for a few years til i saw the light !

I will post back when its complete.

Regards

Pete
 

Walter

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I must admit I have not used burnishing cream on Corian although I did use it on Bob's Mistral.

As I say the apparent difference in finish between 12000 micromesh and burnishing cream was very slight and also subjective. There might well also be a difference depending on the substrate material so it may not work as well on Corian as on acrylic.

I think the speed is certainly important With micromesh. I tend to use about 1000 rpm to 1500 rpm. I think any higher and the finish and the micromesh both overheat which can cause problems with the finish and shorten the life of the micromesh especially the pads.

I have used higher speeds with the burnishing cream but not noticed any significant difference in the finish either way. Maybe the slower speed works better with Corian, but don't have any to try it on so I am happy to accept your findings on this.

One other thought is the actual nature of the materials. If the particles from which Corian is composed are coarser than those of the Acrylic (or vice versa) then logically it should always be possible to get a higher shine on the finer material. Again this is untested as I have no idea which material has the finer particles.

As well as Pete's farecla, there are of course all sorts and grades of buffing compounds which I/we have not considered.
 

Neil

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Walter,

If you want to experiment with the bogfloor send me a pm with your address I dont have it hand, and I'll happily put some bits in the post.
 

MarkW

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This has answerd an issue I had with CA finish I think. I was going to too higher a grit before applying the CA which meant that occasionally it "bloomed".
 

Terry

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I use the Farecla pro 300 and pro 500 that Pete B uses and in fact just received a new pack off him this morning. I have been using it with micromesh on CA - Corian and acrylics and I find it knocks spots off any burnishing cream offered by Woodturning retailers. It takes the finish on my pens to a level that I have never seen on my pens prior to using it and way above a micromesh finish !!!! When using micromesh and Farecla I have the lathe running at 3500 rpm.
 

bellringer

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I use the Farecla pro 300 and pro 500 that Pete B uses and in fact just received a new pack off him this morning. I have been using it with micromesh on CA - Corian and acrylics and I find it knocks spots off any burnishing cream offered by Woodturning retailers. It takes the finish on my pens to a level that I have never seen on my pens prior to using it and way above a micromesh finish !!!! When using micromesh and Farecla I have the lathe running at 3500 rpm.

Might have to buy some
 

Doug

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I've found not all all burnishing cream are the same, some are far more aggressive than others.
One particular cream I used dulled the finish I'd got off the micro mesh considerably.

Presumably all these creams & polishes are just cutting compounds & the finer the abrasive in them the higher the shine will be.
 

Grump

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I have said to much in too many places to get involved in this one.
I'll just stick to my Ajax and Toothpaste and save my money on all the latest must haves.
I do remember dong some slip tests years ago with my plastics.
By putting a given weight or pressure upon the surface and measuring the force taken to move the weight determined how smooth / shiny the surface was.
 

Penpal

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I have stayed away from Micromesh because of cost and variation in batches, suppliers, makers as well dont care for water around the lathe at all. For many years my favourite burnishing cream was Brasso in the cream form in a tube. For ultimate finishing we used Jewellers rouges etc, finding this discussion fascinating with the wealth of Car finishes so freely available now. Nothing will ever duplicate the first time I went as an experiment from the skew on the flat to brasso cream on my first coloured Corian quite a revelation to me. Sometimes acheiving the ultimate finish gives a slippery pen.

Kind regards Peter.:thumbs:
 

Walter

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Now that Neil has sent me some Corian to experiment with I have been able to make a direct comparison.

This blank (the one with the blowout on the end from the colt pen drills thread) was turned to a cylinder between centres, sanded to 600 grit with a Norton abrasive and then the left hand side polished with burnishing cream with no intermediate stages whist the right hand side was polished through all the grits of micromesh and no burnishing cream.

There is precious little difference to my eye, if anything the left hand side has a slightly higher sheen. The main difference is that the left side required two polishing operations, the right side required ten.


IMG_9079 by walter.hall, on Flickr
 

Grump

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That looks like my bog floor that I gave to Neil.
Well done Walter, I have been saying for a long time Kitchen scouring powder and toothpaste works wonders on bog floor.
 

Neil

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That looks like my bog floor that I gave to Neil.
Well done Walter, I have been saying for a long time Kitchen scouring powder and toothpaste works wonders on bog floor.

Brian, nope that's not your bog floor, that is corian, I've made one pen from your piece and got another one or two left. Got to say that I preferred turning your concoction, it wasn't quite as dense as the corian
 
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