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Engraving thoughts please

Unique

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Tony
First the background, then the question.

A couple of weeks ago I saw a news item about the rescue (and planned restoration) of one of the Dunkirk Little Ships which had been abandoned and was being vandalised and scavenged for firewood on Canvey Island. A rescue group (soon to become a trust) transported it back to its home port of Burnham on Crouch in Essex. There a team of enthusiasts are currently beginning to do some of the preparatory for restoration of The Vanguard - a 45ft long Oyster dredger which in its working life plied the rivers Crouch and Roach?
It is the last remaining ship (of three) from the port which sailed to Dunkirk and is estimated to have played a part in saving around 600 lives.
As the image below shows - restoration is going to be a sizeable job - especially as there is significant fire damage in the centre of the ship.

Vanguard 1937.png
Vanguard 2018.jpg
Vanguard 2018 a .jpg

Anyway, like you do when an idea gets your attention I contacted the fellow in charge. I put to him that small pieces of wood salvaged from the ship whilst carrying out the restoration could be turned into pens and other saleable items and that I would be willing to support their project (in a small way) by making some pens.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, I now have a dozen or so planks, mouldings and other salvaged pieces of timber - all sitting in a dry airy place - a few small pieces have already been cut and blanks made-up for some sample pens that I plan to make in the next few days.

Now here's the question that the fellow in charge has asked - Is it possible to engrave each pen or the central ring of each pen with something like: " CK69 Vanguard - a Dunkirk little ship " ?

My own thoughts are that this would be very difficult to achieve in this way and with so much text.

What do you folks think?
What would you think some of the better options are?

Any suggestions, ideas, thoughts would be more than welcome.

Thanks

Tony
 

silver

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:thinks:

Here is my thoughts..

The wood that they were made from was pitch pine and Oak, now in my experience of engraving either of the woods has been difficult.. however.. there always is one..

It wouldn't be difficult to engrave it deep enough and then infill them with coloured resin or paint then finish with melamine or CA.

As for the centerband I would have thought that if you engraved one from a stock pen then you would take off the laquered coating. That said the wording you require would need a large band or someone that could engrave very small lettering.

So yes, anything is possible, have you also thought of making pen gift boxes and then have them engraved?
 

Penpal

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A small photograph cast in the blank of the ship with names would be economic and standout presentation.especially in a two piece pen.Boxes are a great idea but the pen and box get separated.

Peter.
 

Phil Dart

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If you attempt to engrave any of the metal components on a pen kit, you will be through the plating and back to the metal (usually brass) from which it's made in the blink of an eye. For that reason, people normally make do with supplying some kind of certificate or other kind of provenance with the pen . It would be possible to have components engraved at the production stage, before plating takes place, but apart from one kit, that in my opinion is particularly ugly, heavy and ill conceived, and which isn't actually plated in the first place, would involve you in minimum order quantities from the manufacturer that you would probably consider unrealistic.

If I were in your shoes, I think I would be going down the certificate route, but I also like Eamonn's suggestion of engraving a presentation box, which would add perceived value and professionalism.
 

Unique

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:thinks:

..... It wouldn't be difficult to engrave it deep enough and then infill them with coloured resin or paint then finish with melamine or CA.

As for the centerband I would have thought that if you engraved one from a stock pen then you would take off the laquered coating. That said the wording you require would need a large band or someone that could engrave very small lettering.

So yes, anything is possible, have you also thought of making pen gift boxes and then have them engraved?

Thanks Eamonn - I do think that actually engraving and filling on the barrel, though it may be possible, may not be the most elegant/straightforward solution - though I may of course be wrong. I agree, that trying to engrave an existing 'kit' centreband is really a non starter. Boxes, and I know that you're an expert on these, may well be one of the ways to go with this. I may well come back to you in a few days to discuss further.

Tony
 

Unique

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A small photograph cast in the blank of the ship with names would be economic and standout presentation.especially in a two piece pen.Boxes are a great idea but the pen and box get separated.

Peter.

Hi Peter - Thanks for this. I had wondered whether casting with the text embedded might be a possibility and what you've suggested here has started a train of thought that I want to try and develop. I'll come back to you my efforts around this.
I recognise what you say about boxes and pens separating but they can provide the 'presentation' solution.

I wonder what other thoughts are out there?

Tony
 

Unique

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Tony
If you attempt to engrave any of the metal components on a pen kit, you will be through the plating and back to the metal (usually brass) from which it's made in the blink of an eye. For that reason, people normally make do with supplying some kind of certificate or other kind of provenance with the pen . It would be possible to have components engraved at the production stage, before plating takes place, but apart from one kit, that in my opinion is particularly ugly, heavy and ill conceived, and which isn't actually plated in the first place, would involve you in minimum order quantities from the manufacturer that you would probably consider unrealistic.

If I were in your shoes, I think I would be going down the certificate route, but I also like Eamonn's suggestion of engraving a presentation box, which would add perceived value and professionalism.

Hi Phil - thanks for your advice. As you'll probably see from my other responses, I had pretty well discounted the engraving of barrel or centre ring (or similar) and I'm heartened that others are also of that view. In my initial chats with those in charge I had suggested the idea of a certificate of provenance and have shown examples of what I've done previously - they did however wish to explore the idea of engraving/labelling in some way. As you say, a a presentation box does bring added value and is an angle that I'll be following-up as will maybe casting into a blank/partblank.

I'm keeping an open-mind for the moment to see if there are any other suggestions around.

Tony

By
 

silver

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I do think that actually engraving and filling on the barrel, though it may be possible, may not be the most elegant/straightforward solution -though I may of course be wrong.

Yes you may well be wrong:tongue:, its easier than you think. Just takes a little thinking about.

I have found it best to turn the blank down to within a mm of finished size,engrave it, infill then return to the lathe to finish and it usually looks best with a CA to cap it off. Tried Melimine finish but takes a lot to get the right finish and look.

Boxes, and I know that you're an expert on these, may well be one of the ways to go with this. I may well come back to you in a few days to discuss further.

Wouldn't call myself an expert, I have a few improvements to do and a few more decades years to get that title.:winking:

I have done some specials and one off pens with woods that are as rare as hens teeth. But the box has been made from another wood, just engraved with the information and what the wood is.

You could engrave on the boxes "limited Edition 1 / in ??" to make it a special to help raise funds further. certain fact the chance won't come around again would it?

So in my view I don't believe it has to be done from the same wood as you could raise more funds by selling more pens or sets.

Picture below of some I did to help an ex member raise some funds for veterans showing the "limited edition" idea.

veterans-.jpg

PM me if you want to discuss options.
 

Unique

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Yes you may well be wrong:tongue:, its easier than you think. Just takes a little thinking about.

I have found it best to turn the blank down to within a mm of finished size,engrave it, infill then return to the lathe to finish and it usually looks best with a CA to cap it off. Tried Melimine finish but takes a lot to get the right finish and look.

Aaah - I misunderstood how the engraving is done - now it becomes clearer and an interesting approach. Do you have an image of what this looks like by any chance?

I also have to say that I love the box - especially the concept of limited edition as that matches some discussion we've already had regarding fund raising.

Tony
 

Unique

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A certificate with a photo would be my choice.
Just rearranged your wording slightly " CK69 Vanguard - A Little Ship of Dunkirk " :thinks:

Thanks Mark - it is a clear and straightforward way of doing it. Thanks for tweaking the wording. My ideais to gather ideas/options over the next few days then put together a plan.

Tony
 

Gregory Hardy

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I think I have solution for you. Let me disappear into the caverns where sawdust flows and test something. Back to you soon. Hang onto that wood! (BTW - both boxes and certificates are in order too - this is a neat project and I want a pen - but I think I can get your information onto a kit pen itself in a manageable fashion.) Stay tuned.
 

Penpal

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Many years ago in a pen swap with a guy in the US I sent a pic of a line drawn motor car in a logo. This car and group were his favourite passions,he was over the moon with his pen,box and blanks. Just today at the Canberra Show (really big deal here, a man from Brisbane had a smallish cubicle with a Laser Device putting names in rings etc,in tiny places. He showed me pens engraved on the side of clips that were incredible. But like the Lords Prayer on the head of a pin demand excellent eyesight in miniature
An overpowering Fly Fishing Fly pen I made recently from an Airline Pilot instructor in the US to show the effect of an inset picture.

Peter.
 

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Gregory Hardy

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Not done yet, but you'll get the idea...
- Prepped the blanks for a wood pen (in this case, a Berea Baron kit)
- Turned the cap barrel to round and small enough to go into a mold (UK "mould?")
- Turned a tenon down at one end to a predetermined width
- Paper art glued to the exposed brass barrel and then cast in clear (Liquid Diamonds epoxy resin - that seems to clear best without a vacuum)
Tomorrow, I'll square again and then turn it the rest of the way and finish the pen.

Not a perfect process, but it is a relatively inexpensive way to get text on an otherwise all wood pen. The art band could be wider, (or one at each end) for more text such as you need for your project. Colors to match your particular wood can vary as well. The learning curve for this is dramatically more gentle than etching...and I really need a gentle learning curve!
Good luck.
-Greg
IMG_3154.jpg
IMG_3155.jpg
IMG_3156.jpg
IMG_3157.jpg
 

Paul hd

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Not done yet, but you'll get the idea...
- Prepped the blanks for a wood pen (in this case, a Berea Baron kit)
- Turned the cap barrel to round and small enough to go into a mold (UK "mould?")
- Turned a tenon down at one end to a predetermined width
- Paper art glued to the exposed brass barrel and then cast in clear (Liquid Diamonds epoxy resin - that seems to clear best without a vacuum)
Tomorrow, I'll square again and then turn it the rest of the way and finish the pen.

Not a perfect process, but it is a relatively inexpensive way to get text on an otherwise all wood pen. The art band could be wider, (or one at each end) for more text such as you need for your project. Colors to match your particular wood can vary as well. The learning curve for this is dramatically more gentle than etching...and I really need a gentle learning curve!
Good luck.
-Greg

Hi Greg,

I have a vinyl cutter and had a go at putting lettering down the length of the tube. Never got around to casting it.

But I must say the idea of putting the lettering around as a band to the exposed tube is great and I will give this a go.

Thanks
Paul
 

Unique

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Hi Greg - I like this idea. It puts the message on the pen without becoming overpowering and looks like it doesn't add too much extra complication.
I had been testing out a message along the barrel and yesterday prepped a blank (drilled/tubed and then trimmed back to the edge of the tube on one side) to trial it.
The way that you've done it looks to be a more elegant solution. It would be nice to see the completed pen when you get there.

Thanks for not only sharing the idea but also showing how its done.

Tony
 
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