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Beufort nib sections

alpha1

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I'm trying to get my head round nib sections and the use of.
I have looked on Beuforts site at the nib sections are these just upgrades for the Beaufort range of pens. I want to fit a better nib section into a pen that is not one of beuforts range. I bougt one which I assumed would fit a standard kit but it is no were near. The taps are pen threads standard across the range of kits. I would like to make a kitless pen but I dont know enough about the subject to know were to start.
 

Bammer

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Join the club ...

When Phil gets out of his pit he'll be able to fill you in and empty your wallet .... :funny::funny:
 

alpha1

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I fitted one of beauforts ink pumps to one of the pens I want to upgrade what a difference. So much better than the original.
 

Phil Dart

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I wonder if you actually mean "section" Dave, or if your mean "nib housing"

The section is the component part of the pen at the front end, that holds the black nib housing. It's an integral part of the pen (or pen kit) and is something you wouldn't change. The nib housing (the small black threaded tube that holds the nib and the feed) screws directly into the section. I can see that your ordered a nib the other day in a kit compatible housing, but I can't spot that you've ordered a section.

Kit compatible housings fit into a large number of pen kits, including (but not only) the Beaufort Ink ones, but they don't fit every kit out there I'm afraid. It's possible though, to swap the nib itself into the existing housing of a kit in instances where a kit compatible housing doesn't fit. Can you tell me what the kit is please, and I might be able to give you some pointers.

The ready made sections on the Beaufort Ink website are intended for kitless pen makers. A section is quite a complicated part to make from first principles, particularly if you're just starting out on the kitless journey, so a lot of makers prefer to buy one ready made, to save a lot of bother. They are a sort of half way house between and kit and kitless for custom makers, but they can't be used for changing the section on a pen kit, (I'm not sure why someone would want to do that anyway) and the threading inside is for a Bock housing, not a kit compatible hosing.

I hope that helps
 

alpha1

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Thanks for the reply. If you make a kitless pen am I right in thinking you use the taps to cut a thread in the blank once its been drilled to hold the nib section. Fitting one of your pumps to the kit has solved my problem. Previously I could not get the ink cartridge to work.
 

Phil Dart

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Thanks for the reply. If you make a kitless pen am I right in thinking you use the taps to cut a thread in the blank once its been drilled to hold the nib section. Fitting one of your pumps to the kit has solved my problem. Previously I could not get the ink cartridge to work.

Yep, that's correct. If you're making the section yourself, you need a female thread within it to take the housing, you need a male thread at the back end of it to screw into the pen body, a corresponding female thread inside the body to take the section, and then a male thread on the outside of the body to take the cap (which obviously corresponds to a female thread inside the cap)
 

alpha1

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I notice you sell various sizes of taps and die sets. What dictates the size you would use. How do you decide which set to go for. Are there places you can get mandrels etc from or do you make you own.
 

alpha1

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I have pretty much made up my mind to have a go at a kitless pen. But I don't understand what all the taps and dies are for and why they are such odd sizes. I need to do a lot of research before I start shelling out money because it looks like it ain't going to be cheap to set up for. I work in engineering but I don't recognize these tap sizes.
 

Phil Dart

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I notice you sell various sizes of taps and die sets. What dictates the size you would use. How do you decide which set to go for. Are there places you can get mandrels etc from or do you make you own.

I have pretty much made up my mind to have a go at a kitless pen. But I don't understand what all the taps and dies are for and why they are such odd sizes. I need to do a lot of research before I start shelling out money because it looks like it ain't going to be cheap to set up for. I work in engineering but I don't recognize these tap sizes.

The various specialist tap and die sizes are to allow you some choice, but they fall into two categories. First you need to decide what size nib you're going to use - size 5 or size 6. There's size 8 as well, but you can ignore them for now, as they tend to be used for oversized pens by makers with an established market - size 8 nibs are quite specialist. The other two though are standard sizes, and which one you decide will dictate which taps you need to make the thread inside your Section to locate the nib housing. Size 5 is 6.4x0.6 and size 6 is 7.9x0.6

After that, you need to sit down with a lot of paper, a pencil and a good eraser, and work out your design. You need to start from the inside, and work your way to the outside though, because the fundamental point about a fountain pen is that you need to be able to get a converter in and out of it, so there is a minimum size requirement for where the Section screws into the body. The converter you used the other day to upgrade a kit pen is the converter most people would use for a kitless pen too, and it's o/d at its widest point is a shade under 8mm, so the minor on your female thread needs to be a minimum of 8mm, meaning the major will be about 9mm or more, depending on the pitch you use. Beaufort Ink doesn't stock taps and dies for this particular thread because you can easily get them off the shelf from almost anywhere that sells taps and dies. Something like 9x0.75 or 10x0.75 would work well, or maybe even bigger, depending on how large you want your pen to be.

Before you commit to a thread size for the section/body connection though, you also need to consider the thread for screwing on the cap, and that's where the other category of specialist taps and dies come in. First, already having a rough idea of sizing for the above elements, you need to decide where your cap thread is going to sit. The material you're using will have a bearing here too, since you need to take into account the integrity of the finished article if for instance you cap thread sits directly above your section/body thread - in which case you may need to use a fatter cap thread than if the two are in different places. The specialist cap thread taps and dies on the Beaufort Ink website are all triple start threads, which means that the cap will screw on and off with three times fewer turns than a single start thread. Fountain pen owners want to be able to remove the cap in a couple of twists or less, they don't like having to spend ages removing or replacing it. They are available on the Beaufort Ink website from M10 to M14, but something like M12 or M13 will be suitable for most makers, for most designs.

I know. As clear as mud. :thinks:
 

alpha1

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What is the most popular size of tap and die you sell for making kitless pens. The triple thread type. What is the most popular nib size you sell for kitless pens. 5 or 6. Im thinking some thing like the mistral or shakespear size would be interesting for a first atempt or nay be the omega. What would you suggest.
 

alpha1

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The fundamental point about a fountain pen is that you need to be able to get a converter in and out of it, so there is a minimum size requirement for where the Section screws into the body. The converter you used the other day to upgrade a kit pen is the converter most people would use for a kitless pen too, and it's o/d at its widest point is a shade under 8mm, so the minor on your female thread needs to be a minimum of 8mm, meaning the major will be about 9mm or more, depending on the pitch you use. Beaufort Ink doesn't stock taps and dies for this particular thread because you can easily get them off the shelf from almost anywhere that sells taps and dies. Something like 9x0.75 or 10x0.75 would work well, or maybe even bigger, depending on how large you want your pen to be.


I know. As clear as mud. :thinks:

I don't understand this bit can you elaborate, please.
 

Phil Dart

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The converter needs to come in and out through the middle of the female thread which connects the section to the body.

The dimensions of a thread have three elements to it. If for instance you took a 10mm nut and bolt, the nominal diameter at the crests of the thread of the bolt is 10mm. That is called the major diameter.

The crests of the thread are a certain distance apart - lets say on this particular bolt they are 1mm apart. That is the pitch, and the combination of major diameter and pitch are used to describe the bolt in writing, which in this case would be 10x1.

The diameter at the troughs of the thread is called the minor diameter. On most threads the minor is calculated by subtracting the pitch from the major, so in the case of a 10x1 thread, the minor is 9mm.

That translates to the nut - the minor of the bolt equates to the minor of the nut, but because the nut is a female thread, the minor of the nut actually corresponds to the hole through the middle, and the major corresponds to the peaks of the thread up inside it.

So going back to my statement that you need a minimum hole of 8mm through which to take out the converter, if you used a 9x0.75, you would have a hole through the middle of the female thread of 8.25mm.

Does that help?
 

alpha1

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Oh my, I'm shocked gobsmacked even. I tried the bock nib section I purchased in several pen kits one of the cheapest ones I have purchased actually accepts the Bock nib sections. I have ordered several of them with the intention of using the bits to create a kitless pen.:banana:
 
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