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Beall or not to Beall that is the question

Garno

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Gary
Ever since I started this woodturning malarkey one thing that I have learnt is to always get the best you can afford.
But what happens when I cannot for the life of me see what the difference is between 2 items?

I have never been one to back away from a sale, due to cost, if I have the money available,
However I do not like finding out I can buy an identical item for half the money elsewhere.

I have now hit a bit of a quandary and have found 2 items that look the same to me but are miles apart on the price.

BEALL 3-On Lathe Buffing Mandrel by Beall Tools : Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors and this PSI Woodworking LBUFFSYS 3-Step Lathe Buffing System Polish : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Does anyone know how they differ and should I go for the cheaper one?
 

Garno

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The cheshunt buffing system is a lot cheaper than the Beale system


I had a look at that one, would also need the accessory pack and then I'm not sure how it goes onto the lathe. I think it is chuck mounted but not certain.
I only have 1 chuck and not too sure if I want to sacrifice that to keep on the other lathe permanently as I will be keeping the buffing tree set up on the spare lathe.
 

21William

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Have a look here:

http://www.penturners.co.uk/misc/pdf/50_Finishing/Polishing wood with pigtails and mops.pdf

Then head over to:

Polishing Kits | Polishing Mops | Polishing Shop | Polishing Kit

The last time I looked the Beal “system” was about three times the price and the Chestnut about double.

Having three mops all spinning on one shaft may seem clever until you have to store it away somewhere. :rolling: And given that it takes about two seconds to swap a mop on a pigtail what’s the point anyway, you can only use one mop at a time.
Traditional polishing machines have looked like this for decades, there’s a reason for that. They’re relatively safe and quick and easy to use. No need for nuts and bolts and spanner’s etc.

029433EE-80BA-4919-B3B3-DD9BC6A45314.jpg

As the article says though, if you’ve a lathe you only need a £5 pigtail.

The linked company are good to deal with and ship out quickly at reasonable cost. They also have good information on their website if needed. Well worth a look.
 

monophoto

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Louie
Bealll products are excellent, but you do pay extra for the name.

For example, I bought a set of three buffing wheels at a discount hardware store, and made my own mandrels to mount them on my lathe - for a fraction of what the Beall buffing system costs. Likewise, I found that I could buy a generic tap at the hardware store for much less than the Beall tap sold n woodworking shops, also for less money.

I don't disagree with the principle that if you buy cheap, you get cheap and you may have to replace it sooner. But I don't think it makes sense to pay more for a manufactorer's name when generic products are just as good.
 

Garno

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Have a look here:

http://www.penturners.co.uk/misc/pdf/50_Finishing/Polishing wood with pigtails and mops.pdf

Then head over to:

Polishing Kits | Polishing Mops | Polishing Shop | Polishing Kit

The last time I looked the Beal “system” was about three times the price and the Chestnut about double.

Having three mops all spinning on one shaft may seem clever until you have to store it away somewhere. :rolling: And given that it takes about two seconds to swap a mop on a pigtail what’s the point anyway, you can only use one mop at a time.
Traditional polishing machines have looked like this for decades, there’s a reason for that. They’re relatively safe and quick and easy to use. No need for nuts and bolts and spanner’s etc.

View attachment 44554

As the article says though, if you’ve a lathe you only need a £5 pigtail.

The linked company are good to deal with and ship out quickly at reasonable cost. They also have good information on their website if needed. Well worth a look.



Thank you, it has most definitely given me something to think about.
I had not for an instant thought of putting a pigtail on the lathe and the fact it can be mounted in a Jacobs Chuck is an added bonus.

I have just found one that slots into the headstock with no need for a Jacobs chuck
 

alan morrison

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Alan
I have a cheap bench grinder fastened to a wall with a buffing wheel on either side, one for Tripoli and the other for White Diamond. No need to have to use the lathe.

Alan
 

21William

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You can get one of these for five or six quid and it fits (3/4” dia version) into the standard accessory jaws of most wood turning chucks. Just make sure you get the right hand version.

F7438730-3701-4E52-B23F-A7D037FDB09D.jpeg

If you’re only polishing pens a 150mm x 25mm mop is big enough and they cost under a fiver each.

More info for polishing wood:

Guide to Menzerna Compounds for Woods- Plastics and Lacquer | The Polishing Shop
 

Penpal

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Canberra AUSTRALIA
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Peter
Ever since I started this woodturning malarkey one thing that I have learnt is to always get the best you can afford.
But what happens when I cannot for the life of me see what the difference is between 2 items?

I have never been one to back away from a sale, due to cost, if I have the money available,
However I do not like finding out I can buy an identical item for half the money elsewhere.

I have now hit a bit of a quandary and have found 2 items that look the same to me but are miles apart on the price.

BEALL 3-On Lathe Buffing Mandrel by Beall Tools : Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors and this PSI Woodworking LBUFFSYS 3-Step Lathe Buffing System Polish : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Does anyone know how they differ and should I go for the cheaper one?

Make one using threaded rod and a motor yourself.:thumbs:
 

21William

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To be clear, I was told by one supplier that nearly all the Mops on the market are made in the Far East in the same factories to the same standard from the same materials. It’s just that if you buy it from a supplier that only sells Polishing supplies you’ll likely pay for example about a fiver for a six inch mop. The same item from a Woodturning supplier could easily cost you seven to ten pounds, maybe more.

No need for another motor Peter, your lathe already has one and you can’t turn and Polish at the same time. :winking:

Edit: I was way off. Beall sell 8” by what look to be 1” wide mops at £23.95. The Polishing shop sell the same size mop for £6.64. If you want a wider mop the 1 1/2” model is £9.88.
 

Garno

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Gary
You can get one of these for five or six quid and it fits (3/4” dia version) into the standard accessory jaws of most wood turning chucks. Just make sure you get the right hand version.

View attachment 44556

If you’re only polishing pens a 150mm x 25mm mop is big enough and they cost under a fiver each.

More info for polishing wood:

Guide to Menzerna Compounds for Woods- Plastics and Lacquer | The Polishing Shop



Weighing everything up I think I should go for this option,
Reading the guide and the recommendations I will probably get a different set for the acrylic pens as well as the wood set as they have a slightly different finishing compound.

Really glad I posted this question on here as it has certainly made me look at things differently, Thanks everyone :thumbs:
 

21William

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Weighing everything up I think I should go for this option,
Reading the guide and the recommendations I will probably get a different set for the acrylic pens as well as the wood set as they have a slightly different finishing compound.

Really glad I posted this question on here as it has certainly made me look at things differently, Thanks everyone :thumbs:

You are most welcome Gary. The polishing shop (I have no interest in them other than a supplier) has lots of good information on their site and they sell literally dozens more different mops and compounds than wood turning suppliers for you to choose from. They will gladly help you make the right choices if you are in doubt.

One final pointer. It is very easy to launch an item across the workshop using a mop! The bigger the mop the easier it is to do. Both Beall and Chestnut push the 8” diameter mops for wood turners but I personally think a 6” mop is plenty big enough for pens.
 

monophoto

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New York
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Louie
In my previous post in this thread, I mentioned using shop-made mandrels with buffing wheels purchased at a hardware store. That comment may need further explanation.

The 8" wheels that I bought came in a set of three - one 'stitched', one loose cotton, and one loose flannel. Each wheel had a 1/2" hole and the kit included a large washer for each wheel. So what I needed was a way to mount these on my lathe.

The solution was to turn set of wooden mandrels that were drilled and threaded to mount on the lathe spindle.
ScreenHunter 17.jpg

The mandrels are made from leftover scraps of wood - any wood works, but I have found that ash is particularly good for this purpose. I won't specify dimensions since that is specific to individual lathes, and you can easily figure out what your lathe requires. A key point is that the holes that are drilled in the wood should be perpendicular to the grain of the wood - this is important because the mandrels will eventually be threaded to screw onto the lathe spindle, and if the starting hole is perpendicular to the direction of grain, the threads will be sharper and will last longer. Conversely, threads in end grain are notoriously weak, and in fact it may not even be possible to cut end-grain threads in some timbers.

Obviously, it is necessary to have a tap that matches the threading of the lathe spindle. I found that for my lathe, I could purchase an appropriate machinist's tap at a nearby general purpose hardware store. They didn't have the tap in stock, but were able to get it for me from their warehouse in a couple of days.

I start by drilling the larger diameter hole, and then using the tap to thread it. That hole has to be deep enough to accommodate the entire length of the lathe spindle plus and allowance for the head of the bolt that holds the buffing wheel in place. This could be done on the lathe, but I prefer to drill and tap the hole off the lathe, and then use those threads to mount the rough block the lathe for the rest of the work. Cutting the threads in that large hole takes some muscle, and I find that its just easier to do if I hold the blank in a bench vise and use a large wrench on the tap. After I thread the hole I mount it on the lathe so that the threaded hole aligns with the axis of rotation of the lathe, and the remainder of the shaping and drilling was referenced to that one axis of rotation.

Once the spindle hole has been drilled and threaded, I mount the block on the lathe to shape the body. The exact shape isn't important. Then, after shaping the outside of the mandrel, leaving the walls thick enough for strength, I mount a jacobs chuck in the tailstock and drill an on-axis hole to receive the nut that holds the buffing wheel in place. I generally put a little epoxy glue under the head of the nut so that it doesn't fall out, but that step is optional.

There are a few refinements that I add to the design:

  • I usually make these mandrels in two steps. The first is the portion with the larger diameter hole. I drill that larger hole all the way through the block. Taps are commonly tapered to make it easier to start the threading process. However, if a 'blind hole' is threaded with a tapered tap, the threads at the bottom of the hole will be shallower than those further back. By drilling the hole all the way through that first block, and then running the tap all the way through, I get uniform threads over the full depth of the hole. Then, after initially shaping the mandrel, I glue a second scrap of wood on the end to provide a flat mounting surface through which I drill the hole for the wheel mounting bolt.
  • Mandrels that hold buffing wheels don't have to be perfectly aligned with the axis of rotation of the lathe spindle. But when I make a mandrel for some other purpose, I will typically reverse mount the rough-turned mandrel on the lathe and turn a recess so that the mandrel seats against that fillet - that assures that the mandrel axis is always aligned exactly with the lathe spindle axis when it is used.
  • I use paste wax to lubricate the threads that attach the mandrel to the lathe spindle - I assume that they will eventually wear down, but wax helps them last a lot longer. Some people also saturate the threads with thin CA glue, and then after the glue has cured, run the tap back through to clean up the threads. That's a good practice, bot it's not something that I routinely do.
  • Wood expands and contracts with changes in humidity. There are two optional things that can be done if you are concerned about a mandrel getting stuck on the lathe spindle. You could just leave a couple of flat faces on opposite sides of the body so that an adjustable wrench can easily grip the mandrel - the scrap usually starts as a rectangular billet - just don't turn it all the way to round. A fancier solution is to drill an axial hole in the side of the mandrel body to receive a 'tommy bar' - when taking this approach, one might want to leave the walls of the body a bit thicker so that there is more 'meat' to grip that tommy bar.
 

21William

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I’m guessing this is the Pigtail you’ve seen Gary? It looks pretty good if a bit more expensive. :winking:

4860C5BD-EC99-46DD-9B6D-54ED95BC84E9.jpg

57A8A872-E447-4F05-85E2-6D95EB54EFDA.jpg
 

alpha1

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I use these I bought them from the Tiny turners web site shop. I also bought some of the half bars of compound. The mandrel goes in my chuck and the mops screw into the mandrel they work straight out of the box. They are great for pens and small bowls. I have been using my set for months I highly recommend them they are brilliant.

Chestnut Products - Medium Dome Buffing Mop Set - WITH MANDREL | thetinyturner :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
 
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