Large engineers file

[Scots Bill]

Aye Craig, the faces are case hardened! But why would anyone strike one against the other?

 

[Penpal]

Some incredible steel in old files softening and working and hardening means a change in character now its no longer a file and purpose made for turning.

Peter.

 

[bellringer]

The steel files are made from is very brittle if you drop a file it will normally break for the price of buying a scraper just buy one and be safe

 

[Phil Dart]

Yes, I am that person who is going to whinge. There seems to be a prevailing attitude here of "what's all the fuss about?" This is a public forum, and quickly glancing through this thread gives any new turner on a budget the clear impression that to take a file and grind it to a scraper is perfectly OK, which as responsible and experienced turners is, I'm afraid, irresponsible advice.

The tempering applied to the metal from which a file is made is quite different to how a turning tool is tempered. Whether it has happened to anyone here or not, it is an unequivocal fact that there is a likelihood that a file will shatter in use if it is modified to a scraper unless it has been re-tempered to suit its new purpose.

Barry did briefly mention that he tempered his and I have no doubt that his modified file is perfectly safe as a result, but the fact is easy to miss, buried as it is amongst so many statements of success and satisfaction. Files ARE hard and brittle, they DO shatter, and they ARE dangerous to use as scrapers, unless they have been re-tempered accordingly.

Rant ends.

 

[Penpal]

My understanding from the get go was the old file was softened shaped and retempered I base my thoughts and experience on this, nowe a new tool come what may no longer a chisel now a turning tool.

Peter.

 

[Penpal]

Observing knife makers who repurpose flat car springs, hand chisels to use as cut of skinny tools from Hacksaw blades the list is unending.

Peter.

 

[Scots Bill]

well ranted Phil, not to say it is good practice but I have done it and still have some but massive files, I only use them very gently for the reasons we all know. My son paid fifteen quid for such a large scraper in a car boot sale. Belatedly he asked me if it had been made from a file. You could just see the remains of the teeth, no not mine. All safety advice agrees with Phil, Sometimes people just don't have cash for the proper tools. I have made gouges from old b race and bit shell augers (I think they were called. The very first lathe I made my gouge was the central spindle from a Sturmey Archer bicycle hub gear, where the small chain went in was the flute. Without all that type of make do and mend I would never have been able to start turning. My skew chisel was made from a spring from one of those very old prams, you know the flat springs like a big archers bow. I have kept those items just to show folk what you can do when needs must. I made carving tools, oh and two chuck levers from old car push rods.

 

[Lons]

I agree with and understand what you're saying Bill and did much the same myself, however things are very different in todays' world.
I'm guessing when you did it, certainly for me when I started turning with a B&D drill powered lathe 50 odd years ago it was a case of ignorance and innovation fuelled by a serious lack of cash as my only source was paper round money there was little or no easily accessed information to highlight the dangers of an inexperienced operator using these makedo tools and beginners have dig ins, do they not!

In today's world of the internet and forums where advice, usually conflicting is overwhelming I think there is a moral responsibility for those of us with experience to give correct advice and point out the dangers. Potential new turners should surely be accurately informed of the possible risks before they make their choice. Just because you or I haven't had one break doesn't mean the danger isn't there.

That said, I have and still use btw, a file I ground a very long time ago which I still use as a scraper occasionally using very light cuts which it does beautifully and keeps an edge for ages.

 

[Penpal]

Extending these sentiments to home made lathes, band saws and table saws it is a good thing that OH&S exists as a guide for commercial uses however what happens in the home the dangers of home made equipment then it is appropriate to speak about these things on the forum. I remember clearly in my youth my mate had a Norton Dominator just finished working on it said to me lets go for a ride I will show you what it can do, off we went doing around 100 mph, back to his. We noticed the chain was slack so then found the rear wheel nuts had not been tightened when he worked on it. You never know.

Peter.

 

[21William]

Making scrapers from old worn out files was an accepted practice in engineering circles but in fairness they knew what they were doing. As has been ranted, it's not really a good idea though if you don't know what you're doing and tools are much cheaper by comparison enough these days anyway.

Having said that someone gave me an old three square file which I turned into a nice little scraper for deburing stuff!

 

[Scots Bill]

Hi Bob, you are of course, quite right, as I said about Phil's justified rant. I did not mean to encourage anyone to go against the general safety rules. As you say a scraper made from a HEAVY file used in the trailing fashion, and gently, does work and they, although brittle, in skilful hands work a treat. In fact as I waffle on, I wonder just how much brittleness I draw out when grinding the teeth off with an angle grinder. I do know about the colours for different tool hardness, when tempering after hardening. Not for the unskilled though.

 

[Scots Bill]

Aye I asked a second hand car dealer if I could take a car I fancied the look of for a test drive. Sure was his answer, take it as far as you like. I went a long drive. On getting back the mans mechanic went bananas. I told him (the boss) not to let anyone drive that car, the petrol is leaking onto the exhaust pipe!! Bill was driving a bomb!

 

[angelo49]

I was told as a apprentice never to hit two hammers together cos they can chip/shatter I have ignored this for 20 years and never had 1 shatter or chip enjoy your new tool Barry

I thought the same thing George, but........
About 40 years ago while doing the 2 hammer thing all of a sudden I felt a slight burning feeling in my wrist.
When I looked, blood was pumping out about 3 ft. high then I got a draining feeling.
Being a thick headed kid at the time I managed to stop the bleeding and continued what I was doing.
3 days later, about 3AM I wake up with severe pain in my arm. Open the light and see my arm swelled up double it's size.
Got to the ER, X-ray showed a small chunk of metal in my wrist. Cut, removed, and stiched it.
Ever since then if that spot gets touched a certain way I get a jolt of electricity there. Must be hitting a nerve.
I dunno' know..........Maybe they were cheap hammers