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Product Liability Insurance.

Neil

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May 21, 2013
Posts
3,132
Location
Hitchin, Hertfordshire
First Name
Neil
Walter, glad you did start the thread because there are many views on this, I am advised that I don't need product liability insurance as I am not responsible for the design. The manufacture element is covered by the public liability insurance, although I am struggling to see how a pen can actually cause an injury of its own accord? I will read up more about the product liability insurance but was, as I said, advised by a solicitor that it was not need or appropriate for what I do.

Quite happy that your brother should read this as I am operating below the vat threshold!!!
 

bluntchisel

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Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Posts
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Kent, UK.
First Name
Bob
:down::down::down::sob::sob::sob:
Jeez, what a depressive topic! One gloomy thing seems to lead to another. Here's three more...

A few years back, in the litigation capital of the world (USA) a woman walks into a McDonald's and asks for a coffee. She takes one gulp of it and starts screaming blue murder. She's just scalded herself! She eventually sues McDonald's on the grounds that the cup did not have a warning pointing out that the contents were hot. She wins the case BIG TIME, and promptly retires to Florida.

In the same country a guy is walking down the street when he has a heart attack. People immediately rush to his assistance, and tend him until medical assistance arrives. After he recovers, this absolute scumbag of a man sues the Good Samaritans who'd kept him alive, claiming that by helping him they'd made him worse. He, too, wins his case, again coming away with millions. And if you think it can't happen in the UK read on...

Two years ago, and local to me, a guy wakes up in the night and realises there's an intruder in the house. Fearing for the safety of his wife and kids he gets up and confronts the burglar, a jerk-off junkie looking for stuff to sell for drugs. This cretin now starts attacking the man, who then gives him a fecking good hiding. When the police arrive it's the house-owner who gets arrested - having used "excessive force" against this mutant!!! He goes to court - and gets sent down!

It's a cruel world!

Bob.
 

Walter

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Amble on the sunny Northumberland coast.
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Walter
Thanks Neil, I think he is wrong about potential liability only referring to design, but he may be right as to which insurance covers the risk as I am not certain. Whichever insurance it is that covers injury and damage I expect the slippery sods will find some way of not paying out.

I was once hit in the face by a spring that shot out of a ballpoint pen when the top broke off, but it didn't do me much harm and I didn't sue anyone. LOL

As for my brother, I am safely under the VAT threshold too as he wouldn't hesitate to shop me either, they are like that these HMRC chaps. :rolling:
 

Paul

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Oct 22, 2013
Posts
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Location
Kent
All I want to do is make sure people aren't at risk of losing their homes and possessions because some pillock takes a punt on suing you.

I can't help anyone who is making a few quid here or there on essentially the craft market - but for those of you making a relatively decent income (few thousand) I would recommend anyone setting themselves up as a Limited Company, instead of Sole Trader. It makes a break between home and work, so if the worse happened, they couldn't take the home. Just make the company "bust" .

Then offset some home costs ( electricity etc) equipment. Downside is you have to pay tax on your "profits" but plenty of ways to reduce - such as have a minium wage - thus incurring no personal PAYE TAX and leaving no profit in company to be taxed (probably)

Sorry if its a tangent - still need insurance though..... (BTW small claim threshold is now 10K)

If you act like a company - ie in this for profit - then expect to be treated as one. ( I run a company in my non-turning life - not a legal opinion - just hard knocks....)
 

edlea

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Blackpool
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Ed
Sod it ...I think I'll pack this hobby in and go back to collecting stamps ...
 

silver

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Jun 29, 2013
Posts
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Location
Somewhere in Staffordshire,
First Name
Eamonn.
Well...... What a topic I have missed,, :goesred: I now feel as though its not worth putting my four peneth in now..:sob:

But I will anyway.... :thumbs::down::whistling::sob::sob: but I agree with everyone....:winking:
 

Penpal

Grand Master
Joined
May 26, 2013
Posts
25,342
Location
Canberra AUSTRALIA
First Name
Peter
As a sparkie licenced since the 1950,s it seems like forever when I qualified I registered as a Contractor early days the rego was free the insurance cover compulsory was nominal.

In all these years I only worked full time a max total of twenty odd years as an electrician. The Electrical Contractors assn decided to protect themselves from part time blokes like me they submitted that public risk, huge insurance minimums be a requirement for everyone to qualify for the contractors Certificate convincing the Board to make this law a few years ago I opted out of the big one. Now the most recent Electricians license became 400 dollars per annum I will let that go as well.

I hasten to say for a long time now I have refused all requests to install lights, power points, switch boards etc due to the litigeous society we belong to even with best mates to cover my back.

Now fellow pen turners members of this forum I guarantee I could scare the socks of every one of you with Isolated instances of rubbish people who have successfully deprived us mere mortals of our houses and livelihoods by using some obscure law.

There are no such things as safe practices in making and selling pens or products either for the maker or the buyer as there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow as far as I know.

When you or I trade by selling we become subject to laws and conditions as direct manufacturers, when we buy our kits the same, timber purchases so inevitably when we sell make sure we have a selling plan that protects us at law for all eventualities and charge accordingly. Opportunism abounds among Pen makers gimme timber mates rates etc Let the SELLER beware by selling consistently at positive rates that cover the inevitable complications of trade.

I decided when I retired to make Penmaking a pleasure and a non profit venture nearly every day on this and other forums I gain the impression we look for those discounts other savings or ways to undercut pro sales on bowls, pens, grinders, tea lights, candleholders to make ourselves attractive enough to by pass bone fide dealewrs or manufacturers then expect or be offended when the inevitable bites us on the bum.

Go into business pay your way and prosper lift everything as above board as you should pay, taxes, car insurances, valuations on property and I trust have success, not every cloud has a silver lining.

In the meantime have success in your full time protected environment and protect yourself as best you can in your hobbies or other professions, bearing in mind this is after all an open ended discussion no one I ever met has the answers only guidelines thats why IMHO trade Unions etc have proved in my lifetime so far a lot of protection can save you from embitterment and becoming bankrupt. Words of caution placing pens in a situation where the point of display do not pay you outright rather demand commission on sales means all the risk is yours I can relate hundreds of horror stories where sellers use your products for their own purposes degrading the products without shame also requiring extensive paper work. A case in point was a rather famous location near Canberra sells up market woodwork etc on commission they have an unspoken method if you take in ten eg of anything to be sold they refuse to pay you until all ten are sold, well one top maker of dinner sets took in ten complete dinner sets nine were sold and the (corrupt?) owner withheld payment for a year finally the lady fronted the person who said our unwritten policy is to not pay anything until all sets are sold and we have orders now waiting until we feel it is time to reorder from you so without a word spoken the lady went to the place of business on a long weekend sold that set then refused to leave the premises until being paid in full for the ten sets, she then gave the opperaters chapter and verse how she felt even questioning their ancestry,never dealt with them again. Tough stuff I hear you say minor in my experiences with shady dealers.

Kind regards Peter.:goesred:
 

amazilia

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Posts
69
Hi all and especially Walter, this is a really good thread! The topic is relevent to many, or may become so, there is a wide variety of opinion, and different choices for different people, and no-one has fell out or become abusive!
Regards Terry
 

Walter

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Hi all and especially Walter, this is a really good thread! The topic is relevent to many, or may become so, there is a wide variety of opinion, and different choices for different people, and no-one has fell out or become abusive!
Regards Terry

Thanks Terry. There are indeed many options. What cover you need will depend on whether you are running a business, doing the odd craft fair at weekends on a part time basis, or a hobby turner who just sells the odd piece.

Still time!

Oh no there isn't!! :mooney2::face::face::mooney2:
 
Warning! This thread has not had any replies for over a year. You are welcome to post a reply here, but it might be better to start a new thread (and maybe include a link to this one if you need to).
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