Woodturning Magazine

[Jim]

I doubt this thread is about the cost Walter ...

 

[bellringer]

it not about cost

 

[Doug]

I can understand why folks are complaining & clearly the magazine can otherwise they wouldn't have offered copies to those that have complained.
As far as I can see the only people who gain by this kind of offer is the occasional buyer like myself who will buy a copy at the newsagent if there is anything of interest to me that month, I may be swayed to buy the mag for a freebie but it still isn't going to convince me to buy it regularly or subscribe.
Perhaps they are hoping that the family of the occasional buyer sees that person with the magazine & buys a subscription for them as a Xmas present.

 

[Walter]

I doubt this thread is about the cost Walter ...

it not about cost

No indeed, it seems to be largely about a fundamental misunderstanding of the marketing and promotion strategies of publishers and retail newsagents.

 

[MikeD]

Walter,
I will try to explain "what the hell I am complaining about" but I will try and use less intemperate language than you have chosen to use. I am however aware of the advice from Paulo Coelho - "Don't waste your time with explanations. People will only hear what they want to hear"

The Woodturning Magazine is published by the Guild of Master Craftsmen Publications Ltd which is part of the GMC Group.

The book, Woodturning Spindle Projects by Alan Holtham is also published by GMC

I have purchased books from GMC during their year end sales at typically £5 each. I assume they were trying to dispose of excess stock of slow moving titles?

In the past I have subscribed to various computer magazines. Subscribers always received better offers and more freebees than non-subscribers. But perhaps this was because there were more magazines available and hence more competition. Maybe the publishers decided they just needed to try harder. I am aware of marketing theory that considers alternative products and substitute products.

It would appear that GMC chose to provide WH Smith with low cost books when they could have decided to provide those books to their subscribers.

Following complaints GMC have decided to provide the books free of charge but only to those subscribers who are aware of what they have done and who decide to make a complaint

The fact that it is possible to obtain the book at a discount from elsewhere and thereby still save money overall is not the point.

The point is GMC could have chosen to provide their loyal subscribers with a benefit and have instead decided to provide WH Smith with an incentive to stock the publication.

I will not be renewing my subscription and instead will purchase the magazine, at its full list price, from WH Smith but only after flicking through the magazine and deciding if there is anything worth spending £4.75 on instead of an alternative or substitute product such as a pen kit or blank or something else. As you point out my subscription costs me £33.18 a year, if I change my purchasing habits and buy the magazine no more than twice a year at £4.75 costing me £9.50 I will have £23.68 to spend on other things and may end up with the occasional free book unlike the loyal subscribers who will continue to be screwed.


I hope that clarifies my point of view

 

[Walter]

Stooped buying it a long lime ago most of them are full of crap anyway and some haven't got a clue what they are on about and just bluff there way through promoting the next cant do without rubbish chisel or accessory
Places like our forum are replacing them with good practical skills and knowledge that people want

That has to be the best and most sensible statement I have read in a long time, beats any mag, well said Milud. I couldn't agree more init?

I also dungaree that the books is worth £16.99. That may be the sale price but value is set by the ownership.
I would like to see a copy however but not at that price. and if it is so valuable why is being given as a freebie?

Much sense in these two quotes. Of course the book isn't worth £16.99. It's worth what people will pay for it, which is the price I quoted above if they have any sense.

Of course WHS want people to pay full price in their stores rather than subscribe at a discount. Oh my goodness, that's why they are offering a "free" book. Excuse me while I fall off my chair in surprise.

Of course GMC want to encourage new customers, just like your car insurance/gas/ electric is 20% cheaper if you switch suppliers. Marketing innit? DUH!!

Of course the future is on-line sharing of information. The problem however is sorting out the fact from the fantasy. How do you know who to believe?

If you like what's in the magazine and find it useful buy it. If you don't then don't. Simples.

 

[Walter]

I hope that clarifies my point of view

Indeed it does. It confirms that you perceive a loss you have not suffered and ascribe a motivation to GMC publications that would be perverse.

You have not been "screwed" to use your exceptionally temperate language. The mathematics is in my earlier post.

GMC publications are not trying to encourage those who have already been attracted by a discounted subscription, they are trying to encourage new customers.

Marketing is about maximising the volume of sales that can be achieved at minimum cost by encouraging new custom, it is not about being nice to people who have already subscribed.

 

[MikeD]

Walter,
I do believe you have confirmed, and agree with the point I was making.

GMC are not trying to be nice to people who have already subscribed. They will expect a certain churn rate as existing subscribers drop out and new subscribers join. If a few existing subscribers chose not to renew that has already been taken into account in their marketing cost algorithm.

The point of my post was precisely that, a bit of advice to new members on this forum who may be considering a subscription to the Woodturners Magazine - be careful, you may be better off buying now and then and not paying for a subscription as GMC may not have your best interests at heart once they have your money.

But, then again I don't have any vested interest in GMC publications

 

[silver]

GMC publications are not trying to encourage those who have already been attracted by a discounted subscription, they are trying to encourage new customers.

Marketing is about maximising the volume of sales that can be achieved at minimum cost by encouraging new custom, it is not about being nice to people who have already subscribed.

I understand that you have to be seen to support the magazine as you must not be seen to bite the hand that feeds you, so I believe that your views can be biased Walter, but all they have done is alienated quite a few people over the last few months and I am one that stopped buying the magazine and only buy when there is anything worthwhile even bothering with.

I also understand that we on here are only a small minority and for what its worth about complaining is not worth much at all.

That said, if they had given the chance for the subscribers to phone and request a copy of the so called freebies then they would have saved alienating current subscribers.

I know all about marketing, but I also know about loyalty, that is something that is lost in the modern age and the fight for customers and not looking after your existing ones..

The point I believe is about the magazine being proactive in keeping the existing customers and rewarding their loyalty, regardless of a reduction of subscriptions as well as making it attractive enough for new customers to make their subscriptions.

 

[Walter]

I do believe you have confirmed, and agree with the point I was making.

GMC are not trying to be nice to people who have already subscribed. They will expect a certain churn rate as existing subscribers drop out and new subscribers join. If a few existing subscribers chose not to renew that has already been taken into account in their marketing cost algorithm.

The point of my post was precisely that, a bit of advice to new members on this forum who may be considering a subscription to the Woodturners Magazine - be careful, you may be better off buying now and then and not paying for a subscription as GMC may not have your best interests at heart once they have your money.

But, then again I don't have any vested interest in GMC publications

Yes, I do agree, if you want to minimise your outlay then only buying the magazines that interest you makes absolute sense.

However, if you want to buy every copy a subscription is still better value as per my previous comments (free books notwithstanding) and GMC are not ripping you off they just have no incentive to offer you any further benefits beyond the discount you have already. They are a publishing company, not your favourite uncle. Caveat emptor.

As for vested interest, yes to a point, but I am never going to become a millionaire on what GMC pay me for my articles and I could always sell them to someone else.

 

[silver]

The point I believe is about the magazine being proactive in keeping the existing customers and rewarding their loyalty, regardless of a reduction of subscriptions as well as making it attractive enough for new customers to make their subscriptions.

Is This is something that no one is even willing to comment on....

 

[paulm]

There are several reasons why people have subscriptions to publications such as cheaper rates or convenience of having it delivered on your doorstep. When you buy that subscription you believe that you will get all the advantages of buying it in the stores.... more so you probably expect a bit extra. Now this is just human nature and not many people, in fact nobody I know goes into the total financial package of it'll save me a few pounds here and there if I do it this way or that way. Simply subscribers expect the same deal if not better than occasional purchasers. Marketing doesn't seem to account for loyalty anymore and this is why people get upset when they commit to purchases when it would be better to buy it from a store. People should be able to have a grunt at this unfortunate marketing blunder and not be told how things should be done by someone who doesn't seem to ever put a foot wrong!

 

[Woody]

I have seen this argument go round and round so many times and no real satisfactory conclusion is ever reached I would suggest you all express your dissatisfaction with the magazine and cancel your subscription then maybe they will sit-up and listen to there readers please note I did say maybe and in the meantime look in places like this forum for your inspiration, ideas and advice myself personally find magazines a complete waste of money you maybe read half of it at the most glance at a few pictures of gallery items that you will never make, don't bother with about half of it because it is of no interest to you so really why bother I don't and whilst they use the same format never will but that is just me there I have said my piece.
Christmas is coming :blowx::blowx:

 

[rowdyyates115]

It sucks how they try and treat the loyal.

I've just called them and they said that its a promotion for WHSmith and not with the magazine ... but when I mentioned cancelling and loyal customers and shoving it up your arse they said that if you call 01273 488005 they will send you one.

Just love it when you test them...

 

[Walter]

There are several reasons why people have subscriptions to publications such as cheaper rates or convenience of having it delivered on your doorstep. When you buy that subscription you believe that you will get all the advantages of buying it in the stores.... more so you probably expect a bit extra. Now this is just human nature and not many people, in fact nobody I know goes into the total financial package of it'll save me a few pounds here and there if I do it this way or that way. Simply subscribers expect the same deal if not better than occasional purchasers. Marketing doesn't seem to account for loyalty anymore and this is why people get upset when they commit to purchases when it would be better to buy it from a store. People should be able to have a grunt at this unfortunate marketing blunder and not be told how things should be done by someone who doesn't seem to ever put a foot wrong!

That seems fair enough to me Paul but I can't help thinking like an accountant. I am not telling anyone how to do it, I am just expressing an alternative opinion.

I subscribed to Good Woodworking (with which I have no connection whatsoever) a while ago and got nothing as a promotional incentive, the very next issue they were giving away some power tool or other. Did I blame the publishers for that? No I just accepted my own bad timing and vowed to wait for giveaways before subscribing to anything else.

As a subscriber to Woodturning (Yes, I have to buy it like anyone else unless I have an article in it) I didn't get the book either but if I decide I want one I can get one for £3.95 by buying an extra copy of the mag from WHS and giving it to someone else.

It is just about your personal attitude to this sort of differential promotion. I am not saying mine is better than anyone else's but it certainly seems to be different.

As for the content, that's a different matter again. If you don't find it appeals then let Mark Baker know what you would like to see or just stop buying it.

 

[Walter]

The point I believe is about the magazine being proactive in keeping the existing customers and rewarding their loyalty, regardless of a reduction of subscriptions as well as making it attractive enough for new customers to make their subscriptions.

Is This is something that no one is even willing to comment on....

Yes I agree that lessons could be learned from the reaction of subscribers to this particular promotion.

 

[Penpal]

Not knowing the magazine I sure learned a lot from the conversations, but I guess all promotions start and finish somewhere. I am inclined toward Woodies attitude there is a lot of padding in magazines, I have tried the free reading but nowadays visit my nearest library
always carry a notebook and pick up on e mail addresses etc.

Kind regards Peter.

 

[Doug]

Having had to take the good lady into town so she could get the last few bits she needed for Christmas presents, I popped into W H Smiths to see what all this fuss was about, the upshot of which was SWMBO offered to buy the mag for me, so as it would have been rude to refuse I'm now the owner of Alan's book.

I have to admit from a brief flick through it looks to be a nicely set out book with quite a few projects & plenty of step by step photos. Alan does appear though to have the most organised workshop I've ever seen

 

[Terry]

I have noticed that Mark Baker has been on the forum a couple of times in the last day or so but as yet hasn't passed any comment !!!!!

 

[bellringer]

i had noticed that and only looked at this thread my be he could comment