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Gouge and Chisel shrpening.

Pierre

Graduate Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2015
Posts
999
Location
Southern Central France
First Name
Pierre
We had this discussion (argument) a couple of years ago, I use a Tormek, but its about 50 50 wheels or sanders. I was trained and started on a coarse high speed wheel but the tools wore down too fast so I found the tormek saved me money in not having to buy tools. But then I also make square things as well so need my chisels to be really finely sharpened. But for my plane blades I use a Worksharp to avoid a concave bevel.
 

Lance

Full Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Posts
17
Location
South wales
First Name
Lance
I looked at the Sorby pro edge but I can not justify the cost for what I do. The Club has one but they frown on you using it to sharpen your personnel tools its only available to sharpen Club tools.
I have ben looking at the Record wet stone grinders any opinions of these units guys.
I use a tormek wet stone grinder to sharpen my woodturning tools , I use a sorby Pro edge in the club am a member of
 

Phil Dart

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Executive Member
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Nov 28, 2014
Posts
5,458
Location
Colebrooke, Devon
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Phil
All roads seem to lead to the pro-edge in the end, however, sharpening on a wheel is a skill that can be acquired. I don't know the specific differences between the various makes that are available, but get one that offers a nice big wheel - the larger the better, and that doesn't run too fast. Small wheels will hollow-grind to a greater extent than is practical for woodturning, and a fast rpm will overheat the tool.
 

Rob Stoakley

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Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Posts
16
Location
Wilton, nr. Salisbury
First Name
Rob
I'll chip in on this one. Most of my work is cabinet making so I'm grinding the primary bevel on chisels and plane blades. Some years ago I tried a Pro-Edge and hated it; you simply cannot grind a blade almost to the edge without the imminent possibility of 'blueing' the steel and at £60 a pop for a Veritas/LN plane blade, it's not worth the risk. The Tormek, though expensive, is water cooled so I'm able to grind to within a fraction of a mm on the edge, with absolute certainty that the steel is still good. I also fitted a coarse diamond wheel with completely transforms it's use. Downside is of course, that it's slow, especially to re-shape a profile, but with the right jig, it's a matter of seconds only to re-sharpen a gouge. That said, all gouges and turning tools these days are made from HSS which will tolerate a degree of 'blueing' without loss of temper. As ever, horses for courses and what suits one won't suit another, but if you're after the best and safest option for all your grinding needs, the Tormek is a 'no brainer' - Rob
 

21William

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Jan 21, 2016
Posts
1,619
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Dorset
First Name
William
I knew several excellent turners who wouldn't use a ProEdge as you couldn't get a hollow gring with it. Otrhers swore by it, of course.
I heard this once before but I don’t know why. Most types of tools including wood turning tools come straight out of the factory with a flat grind. Apparently Sorby themselves use a large belt grinder in the factory and I’ve never had a problem using tools straight out of the packet.
I like hollow grinds for things like knives and chisels where the edge doesn’t generally need to be as robust.
 

Curly

Graduate Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Posts
428
Location
RM of Aberdeen, Saskatchewan, Canada
First Name
Peter
Adding to what Rob said a couple posts up.

High Speed Steel was developed to hold its edge when near red hot cutting metal on lathes and milling machines. So if the edge gets blue the tool's heat treat is still intact. What you must not do is to dip the hot tool in cold water. That causes microscopic cracks in the edge which leads to premature wear. You have to sharpen again. What you should do when the edge blues is to set the tool aside to cool in the air on its own. It may not look pretty but won't make a difference in the edge life.

Now if you have an old tool with carbon steel, old turning tools, chisels, plane blades, etc and you blue it, the hardness is gone in the blued area. You'll have to grind back past the blue to get to hard metal again.

To avoid blueing entirely make sure you dress your grinding wheels regularly to remove dulled abrasive. It looks like the wheel is glazed over or shiny. Don't grind with worn sanding belts for the same reason or use a water cooled wheel like a Tormek.

Pete
 

howsitwork?

Graduate Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Posts
527
Location
north york (gods own county)
First Name
Ian
Adding to what Rob said a couple posts up.

High Speed Steel was developed to hold its edge when near red hot cutting metal on lathes and milling machines. So if the edge gets blue the tool's heat treat is still intact. What you must not do is to dip the hot tool in cold water. That causes microscopic cracks in the edge which leads to premature wear. You have to sharpen again. What you should do when the edge blues is to set the tool aside to cool in the air on its own. It may not look pretty but won't make a difference in the edge life.

Now if you have an old tool with carbon steel, old turning tools, chisels, plane blades, etc and you blue it, the hardness is gone in the blued area. You'll have to grind back past the blue to get to hard metal again.

To avoid blueing entirely make sure you dress your grinding wheels regularly to remove dulled abrasive. It looks like the wheel is glazed over or shiny. Don't grind with worn sanding belts for the same reason or use a water cooled wheel like a Tormek.

Pete
Thanks Pete
 

Padster

Graduate Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2021
Posts
564
Location
Leicester
First Name
Paddy
So I’ll add some confusion….

I've never been great with sharpening and admit to some struggles, I have/was using the Axi ripoff of the Tormek, with Tormek jigs but never really felt it was right for me or that I got to grips with it....
Recently I was introduced to the Wolverine Jigs and slow grinders (with CBN wheel) from Hope Woodturning - all I can say is that it has revolutionised things for me.... not cheap but my belief is it is a system that will outlive me and I hate 'putting edges' ;) back on my gouges less!

Just to say I have no affiliation to Hope Woodturning, but found them very helpful and for me the system works

hth

Padster
 

flexi

Executive Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Posts
6,202
Location
Maidstone
First Name
mark
So I’ll add some confusion….

I've never been great with sharpening and admit to some struggles, I have/was using the Axi ripoff of the Tormek, with Tormek jigs but never really felt it was right for me or that I got to grips with it....
Recently I was introduced to the Wolverine Jigs and slow grinders (with CBN wheel) from Hope Woodturning - all I can say is that it has revolutionised things for me.... not cheap but my belief is it is a system that will outlive me and I hate 'putting edges' ;) back on my gouges less!

Just to say I have no affiliation to Hope Woodturning, but found them very helpful and for me the system works

hth

Padster
TBH...if you find something that works for you and you have faith in it then it probably is the best one (for you)...
I have found this with so many other things in life, climbing and shooting ( not at the same time!!) not necessarily brand loyalty but a belief and trust that 'IT' works ....as I have said previously I have tried soooo many things and what I have settled for works for my situation.....great responses on here from all....I need a new sharpener for work now so plenty of food for thought again!!
 

alpha1

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Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Posts
1,179
Location
middlesbrough
First Name
Dave
I had a slow day at work to day every one seems to be on holiday.
So I had a go at sharpening a Skew using the Tormek jigs. This is all new to me. To be honest I was not overly happy with the result.
Any way moving on Wednesday night is my Woodturning Club night I had a very nice peice of wood that was destined to be a toadstool.
I struggled with a brand new 1/2" spindle gouge and was getting no were. One of the Guys looked at it and said its blunt. This was a brand new Gouge. He popped it on the Club pro edge it took 5 minutes to set up and sharpen the tool. I went ont on finnish the project but I have to say having seen the pro edge in action I was well impressed.
But unfortunatelly I have spent loads of money on Tormek stuff so I need to make it work.
Having said that I have revisited Tormeks sharpening guides and I am convinced I did not set up the guides properly especialy the SVS-50 when sharpening my skew so I need to revisit that. Am I going to buy a Pro edge NO I can not jusify the extra expence.

The Wife loves the Toadstool by the way.
 

pittswood

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Mar 14, 2016
Posts
1,266
Location
Rhigos, South Wales
First Name
Kelvin
Dave, I was an engineer for 41 years. I was also HSE for all the grinding wheels throughout the factory. We used wet, dry and diamond grinding wheels, all a pain to set up and keep cleaned and true. Then, one day we had a belted grinder for some special parts and wow, what a difference. Once the belt had its angles set up, we were knocking out hundreds of these parts out every day. Four fold the numbers with the previous old grinding wheels we had.
To the point of this essay, the pro edge take less of the gouges steel on the grind, also form the perfect angle every time and polish to a very fine edge, which you don't get with a grinding wheel, believe me! Once set up, you can go back and forth to re-grind, or I should say re-polish, your gouges edge, just change the grit size, not the whole grinding wheel.
Even if you move the grinding angle from one angle to another, you will always go back and the previous angle, which is always correct.
I tried wet stones, sold them soon after. To slow and you send more time grinding than turning.
I will say one other thing, I do use a grinding wheel, to reprofile a gouge, or to take away surplus steel, but do not use it grind to the finished gouge.
Hope this helps, we have all been there, and yes they are expensive I agree, but I think you will not go back to wet wheels again.
Kelvin
 

Rob Stoakley

Full Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Posts
16
Location
Wilton, nr. Salisbury
First Name
Rob
I had a slow day at work to day every one seems to be on holiday.
So I had a go at sharpening a Skew using the Tormek jigs. This is all new to me. To be honest I was not overly happy with the result.
Any way moving on Wednesday night is my Woodturning Club night I had a very nice peice of wood that was destined to be a toadstool.
I struggled with a brand new 1/2" spindle gouge and was getting no were. One of the Guys looked at it and said its blunt. This was a brand new Gouge. He popped it on the Club pro edge it took 5 minutes to set up and sharpen the tool. I went ont on finnish the project but I have to say having seen the pro edge in action I was well impressed.
But unfortunatelly I have spent loads of money on Tormek stuff so I need to make it work.
Having said that I have revisited Tormeks sharpening guides and I am convinced I did not set up the guides properly especialy the SVS-50 when sharpening my skew so I need to revisit that. Am I going to buy a Pro edge NO I can not jusify the extra expence.

The Wife loves the Toadstool by the way.
Persevere with the Tormek and it's jigs and you will achieve correctly sharpened tools. The 'book of words' is particularly good and gives exact instructions on how to go about the setting up process (which isn't difficult). For a spindle gouge say, there are only three settings to replicate the exact grind each time and these can be recorded on the handy yellow stickers which conveniently wrap around the ferrule - Rob
 

21William

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Jan 21, 2016
Posts
1,619
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Dorset
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William
I believe Tormek were aware of the shortcomings of their system for anything other than final sharpening. This may be why they started selling Tormek compatible supports for standard bench grinders. Do all the rough work and re-profiling etc on a bench grinder then finish it off on the Tormek?

Possibly the best setup for the Tormek is to use their Diamond wheels but they aren’t cheap!
 

Brian

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Joined
Mar 23, 2023
Posts
14
Location
Leics
First Name
Brian
I looked at the Sorby pro edge but I can not justify the cost for what I do. The Club has one but they frown on you using it to sharpen your personnel tools its only available to sharpen Club tools.
I have ben looking at the Record wet stone grinders any opinions of these units guys.
Just a little suggestion, would it be possible for you to sharpen your tools at the club if you invested in some belts of your own?
 
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