bench saw plate

[Jimjam66]

Not too hot on table saws as I have a RAS, but one thing I do know is that using one without a riving knife is asking for trouble. The teeth rising from under tha table at the back of the blade can catch on the timber either side and start to lift it. What you describe sounds exactly like that - the wood is being lifted by the rear teeth, pushed down by the front teeth, and you're on a roller coaster with no brakes. The ride ends when one set of teeth wins - usually the front because you compensate by pushing the wood harder into the blade - and SMACK! Bye bye insert plate. Put the riving knife back and see if the trouble goes away.

Not sure why your riving knife would be independent of the blade height wise? Seems a design fault or a classic case of RTFM.

 

[MarkW]

Use a push stick and this doesn't happen and for goodness sake put the riving knife back in. Another thing to check is the distance between the blade and the guide. Raise the blade to its full height and measure (with the unit unplugged) the distance between the back of the blade and the guide and the front of the blade and the guide. These should be identical if not the blade will heat up as it cuts and gets squeezed this can cause the blade to "grab"

 

[paulm]

Ok David I give in, I will look at the manual. Unfortunately the riving knife holds the guard on top if it which means that whilst its good when cutting all the way through wood it won't allow me to cut part way through which is why I took it off.

I think (whilst trying to get to sleep last night) that the problem is the fence isn't square and tapers in towards the rear of the blade. Ultimatly I know I should read the manual...

Not too hot on table saws as I have a RAS, but one thing I do know is that using one without a riving knife is asking for trouble. The teeth rising from under tha table at the back of the blade can catch on the timber either side and start to lift it. What you describe sounds exactly like that - the wood is being lifted by the rear teeth, pushed down by the front teeth, and you're on a roller coaster with no brakes. The ride ends when one set of teeth wins - usually the front because you compensate by pushing the wood harder into the blade - and SMACK! Bye bye insert plate. Put the riving knife back and see if the trouble goes away.

Not sure why your riving knife would be independent of the blade height wise? Seems a design fault or a classic case of RTFM.

 

[paulm]

Thanks Mark, I think this is it. I always use a push stick though

Use a push stick and this doesn't happen and for goodness sake put the riving knife back in. Another thing to check is the distance between the blade and the guide. Raise the blade to its full height and measure (with the unit unplugged) the distance between the back of the blade and the guide and the front of the blade and the guide. These should be identical if not the blade will heat up as it cuts and gets squeezed this can cause the blade to "grab"

 

[paulm]

Thanks Doug that does make sense. I'll give it a go

 

[yorkshireman]

Paul,
how noisy is the saw. I'm looking to buy a table saw but would really like one with a minimum 3in depth of cut. The cheapest ones are ones like yours with a brush motor but from what I've read they scream like a banshee. Hence I've been looking at an induction motor but to get the same sort of depth of cut I have to go to something like the Charnwood 650 - I think - and thats pushing £900 but it looks a solid saw with plenty of cast iron for stability.

 

[paulm]

I love this saw, and it is a bit noisy, it sings but it does exactly what I wanted it for except it would be nice to be able to cut wood part way through and still keep the riving knive and guard on. Also despite having a good dust collection vacuum, a lot of dust still gets out... but I like it.

Hopefully I think the problem I have is with the fence and trueing that up will sort out my broken plates.

Paul,
how noisy is the saw. I'm looking to buy a table saw but would really like one with a minimum 3in depth of cut. The cheapest ones are ones like yours with a brush motor but from what I've read they scream like a banshee. Hence I've been looking at an induction motor but to get the same sort of depth of cut I have to go to something like the Charnwood 650 - I think - and thats pushing £900 but it looks a solid saw with plenty of cast iron for stability.

 

[Grump]

Paul,
Hence I've been looking at an induction motor but to get the same sort of depth of cut I have to go to something like the Charnwood 650 - I think - and thats pushing £900 but it looks a solid saw with plenty of cast iron for stability.

Many moons ago I built my own table saw with a Bendix washing machine motor. they used to advertise this washing machine with a baby sleeping next to it that's how quiet it really was.
I think I had a rheostat for speed control although these days I would use pwm for that.
Motor was mounted low down at just above floor level and belt driven to a pulley wheel with blade attached under the bench top. safety guard made from an old lawn mower grass box.
This thing was a mighty beast, variable speed to as fast as you could possibly want, quiet as mouse cheap as chips, made from a scrap yard and would rip through railway sleepers like a knife through butter.
Had it for years and still would if I had room for it, it made £150.00 at auction when I shut my factory down after many years of loyal trouble free service .

 

[paulm]

There is so much satisfaction in making things that work as good if not better than off the shelf stuff and I admire people who do it. Unfortunatly I don't have the time or ability to make such a beast. I'm only home on weekends and want to spend every hour that my little petal lets me up the shed turning pens so a bought one for me it is... plus I'm dangerous enough with a bought one

Many moons ago I built my own table saw with a Bendix washing machine motor. they used to advertise this washing machine with a baby sleeping next to it that's how quiet it really was.
I think I had a rheostat for speed control although these days I would use pwm for that.
Motor was mounted low down at just above floor level and belt driven to a pulley wheel with blade attached under the bench top. safety guard made from an old lawn mower grass box.
This thing was a mighty beast, variable speed to as fast as you could possibly want, quiet as mouse cheap as chips, made from a scrap yard and would rip through railway sleepers like a knife through butter.
Had it for years and still would if I had room for it, it made £150.00 at auction when I shut my factory down after many years of loyal trouble free service .

 

[Jimjam66]

Paul, I've had a look at the manual for this saw online and frankly, you were right not to bother reading it. About as useful as udders on a bull ...

... However, it does seem that you can remove the blade guard but keep the riving knife on the machine, and (from the poor line drawings) it seems that the riving knife is either at blade height or just below. So rebates should be possible with the riving knife installed.

Also, from the online reviews it seems you are not alone in finding the insert plate flimsy and easily broken. It seems the easiest fix is to make your own zero-clearance insert plate out of plywood.

 

[Walter]

The manual may not be the best David, and it does appear in places to make reference to a slightly different version of the saw, but pages 13, 14 and 15 do contain some advice on proper use of the machine that apply to pretty much any saw table and which might help prevent the sort of problems that are being experienced as indeed might assembling the machine properly with all its guards and fences in place and properly adjusted.

Where I do agree wholeheartedly is that the table insert appears to be made from something resembling compressed mouse droppings and breaks if you fart in its direction from the other side of the workshop. A zero tolerance plate is a big improvement. I made one from 3mm phenolic.


DSCF1052 by walter.hall, on Flickr

 

[Woody]

If you are cross cutting with the fence being used as a stop then you will always have this problems the fence isn't designed for that purpose it is only meant for ripping wood down the only solution is the one Doug said clamp a bit of wood to the fence that runs out just before the piece you are cutting hits the blade he dose know what he is talking about as a fitter by trade most good saw benches normally tell you this in the manual

 

[Walter]

Woody and Doug are right. Even the less than adequate manual provided advises (page 14) "When making a crosscut, remove the rip fence from the table." Unfortunately it does not go on to explain that with the MLT 100 you don't even need to clamp a bit of wood to the fence to use it as a stop, you can retract it so it stops short of the blade like this:


020 by walter.hall, on Flickr

 

[Woody]

There you go job done sorted you wont only find pretty faces on this forum LOL the three wise men have spoken

 

[Jimjam66]

the three wise men have spoken

Which one's Curly, which is Moe and which is Larry?

 

[Walter]

My Granny used to say that I was as daft as Larry, but I have no idea who the Larry in question was.

 

[Woody]

And I have to be curly

 

[Jimjam66]

the table insert appears to be made from something resembling compressed mouse droppings and breaks if you fart in its direction from the other side of the workshop.

Every now and then you come across a keeper - I'm having this one, Walter!

 

[paulm]

Thanks David, that might just be the answer. I can't see how to get the riving knife below the level of the top of the blade though. Plywood may be just what I need to do.

 

[paulm]

Ah, Thanks Walter, that's a good idea.

Woody and Doug are right. Even the less than adequate manual provided advises (page 14) "When making a crosscut, remove the rip fence from the table." Unfortunately it does not go on to explain that with the MLT 100 you don't even need to clamp a bit of wood to the fence to use it as a stop, you can retract it so it stops short of the blade like this:


020 by walter.hall, on Flickr