Forum feed back..

[silver]

To prevent Miles thread being bogged down and taking it off thread..

continuing this comment from Walter

I am glad you found my comments useful. I do think it would help beginners if more of our experienced members were prepared to offer constructive criticism rather than just saying "nice pen" when there are clearly things that need improvement.

So don't you think it's time that we made a change and was starting to be constructive when required.

When we post a new thread showing our pride and joy, do we all want the comments? Or do we continue as we are?

Just a thought, so what is your thoughts?

Look forward to your replies..

 

[Walter]

One suggestion that has worked on other forums is that if comments and critique are wanted then the words "C&C welcome" or similar should be included in the text of the post (as it was in Miles's thread). That way those who want constructive criticism get it and those who don't don't.

Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with "nice pen" comments if you like the pen and have nothing to suggest, but if you can see where improvements could be made and the maker has asked for critique then it can only help everyone to point out ways of improving.

 

[Jim]

I have never looked at pens to find fault ..

 

[Walter]

Finding fault is not the point Jim, it is offering suggestions for improvement. There is a vast difference.

If someone can see a way something I have made could be improved than I welcome suggestions.

 

[GSteer]

My opinion is along the same lines as Walter, common setup on other creative related forums. If someone is specifically looking for feedback then a marker indicating this is all that's required. I know for myself I'll prob note it in every post when I eventually stop hiding behind my lathe and actually post pictures of what I've made as I'm darn sure I'll have a lot to improve upon.

 

[Dalboy]

One suggestion that has worked on other forums is that if comments and critique are wanted then the words "C&C welcome" or similar should be included in the text of the post (as it was in Miles's thread). That way those who want constructive criticism get it and those who don't don't.

Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with "nice pen" comments if you like the pen and have nothing to suggest, but if you can see where improvements could be made and the maker has asked for critique then it can only help everyone to point out ways of improving.

I agree Walter as you know I am on many like yourself where this is implemented. I am however guilty on here of sometimes letting people know my views on a piece and those are normally well received as they know that it is just my point of view and that it is given in good taste hopefully to help.

 

[Bill Mooney]

I agree with Walter that a constructive comment can help overcome a shortcoming in what we make. I more than most need honest comments to keep me on track. Unfortunately I'll not be much help in giving critique as I can't see enough detail unless I'm only 1" away from what I'm looking at. So a nice pen is possibly all I can say about it. If someone asks for advice on a specific thing or technique then I'll help where I can.

 

[Woody]

I find that pen critics in a lot of cases never seem to post pens maybe it would be good to lead by example show that you know what your talking about like proof in the pudding I have and always will comment on items not just pens how I feel I should comment not how someone else thinks I should comment as I respect your opinion maybe we should all respect how others express there opinion until they border on insulting others and there work that is well that is my opinion now were is Smiffy

 

[Penpal]

Happy to enjoy all contributions in my own way, my own time. Your participation means a lot to me.

Peter.

 

[Terry Q]

I won't suggest corrections unless the maker asks for them. I also won't repeat what others have already said. No sense beating a dead horse.

 

[Doug]

I find that pen critics in a lot of cases never seem to post pens maybe it would be good to lead by example show that you know what your talking about like proof in the pudding I have and always will comment on items not just pens how I feel I should comment not how someone else thinks I should comment as I respect your opinion maybe we should all respect how others express there opinion until they border on insulting others and there work that is well that is my opinion now were is Smiffy

Couldn't agree more, the problems with forming doctrines on how folks should post on threads leads to a drop in activity, this forum is the friendliest most active small forum I go on I hope it will remain so.

 

[Woody]

Couldn't agree more, the problems with forming doctrines on how folks should post on threads leads to a drop in activity, this forum is the friendliest most active small forum I go on I hope it will remain so.

A lot of the older members who made this forum what it was dont come on here anymore because its not the same anymore most say the fun and banter has gone a comment by one said it has gone down hill if you want to know why then you need to ask them not me

 

[Walter]

Lets just go back and look at my original statement.

"I do think it would help beginners if more of our experienced members were prepared to offer constructive criticism rather than just saying "nice pen" when there are clearly things that need improvement."

Nothing in that suggests forming a doctrine or changing forum policy or the introduction of instructions on how to post. It is a suggestion that constructive criticism would be more help than platitudes, that is all.

Perhaps I could have added "where it has been asked for" so that it read:

I do think it would help beginners if more of our experienced members were prepared to offer constructive criticism where it has been asked for rather than just saying "nice pen" when there are clearly things that need improvement.

A lot of us have the knowledge and skills to help the less experienced to improve and if a few more were prepared to stand up to the plate and offer helpful critique when it is asked for I think that would be good for the forum and the craft. That is not an instruction or a rule change or a doctrine just a friendly request.

Also, in Miles's original thread Eamonn said:

I have given up saying at times rather than have someone come back at me to challenge what has been said..

I will often get in touch with a PM to save the crap, I know that means "others" fail to learn along the way as well..

It's easier.

It is a pity if those who do wish to offer constructive critique cannot do so without worrying about others leaping to the "defence" of the maker. Critique is advice for improvement not point scoring or one-upmanship.

 

[Vic Perrin]

I will more than likely make a complete arse of this but here's my 10 peneth on this issue.

I came onto the Forum a couple of years back now and at first felt very nervous about posting pictures of my work.

My first picture posts were horrendous and in a very nice way the members on here told me so there was some very good constructive criticism and a great deal of banter about my photos. More importantly the guys on here helped me out tremendously to the point of sending me a decent camera, providing me with a computer programme to edit my photos and spending hours on the phone putting me right. I am so grateful to those who gave their time so that I now I can post a half decent photo.

The only trouble with taking good photos is that it shows all the faults with what you have made. I had never made a pen before I joined this site and have never had a lesson (perhaps that why my pens looked shite ). The help that I have been given by the folk on here has been invaluable. Constructive criticism and praise have certainly helped me improve (I think ) my pen turning and more importantly my general woodturning skills.

This site is a credit to all of its members the generosity shown on here to fellow members is unbelievable and there have been so many friendships formed.

Let's keep this going and through constructive criticism, praise and most importantly good old banter we can all develop and share our skills.

 

[Doug]

My own experience of critique which is mainly from other forums & not Penturners is that generally the folks giving the critique rarely if ever comment positively on other work that is posted, they only post to "critique"

Doing this over time regardless of how the advice is given makes these these folks look like out & out critics & that has a detrimental effect.

By all means give advice if it's asked for, but otherwise if it's not just don't post.

 

[Walter]

This site is a credit to all of its members the generosity shown on here to fellow members is unbelievable and there have been so many friendships formed.

Let's keep this going and through constructive criticism, praise and most importantly good old banter we can all develop and share our skills.

Well said Vic, praise where it is due and constructive criticism where it is asked for.

My own experience of critique which is mainly from other forums & not Penturners is that generally the folks giving the critique rarely if ever comment positively on other work that is posted, they only post to "critique"

Doing this over time regardless of how the advice is given makes these these folks look like out & out critics & that has a detrimental effect.

By all means give advice if it's asked for, but otherwise if it's not just don't post.

Yes, we have all come across those Doug, their behaviour has seriously damaged other forums and I would hate to see that sort of thing happen here. Thats not what my comment was about at all. Your last line sums it up nicely.

 

[Dalboy]

Some very valid points been raised but this is mostly from the more experienced turners. It would be nice to hear what the novice/beginner think of someone giving constructive criticism on anyone work

 

[Bill Mooney]

There's nowt wrong with the pens you send me Vic. They are all well made.

 

[Phil Dart]

Leaving the principle and desirability of critique to one side for the moment (I've read everyone's comments so far) in practical terms it is possible to signal whether or not you would like to have critique. Read on....

If you post an item in the buy/sell subforum, you can click a button to indicate which you are doing, or if it is sold. The same sort of thing is possible to make happen when you post a picture of your latest pen. The buttons could read "No C&C thanks" or "C&C welcome" or something else of suitable wording. In fact the software can force you to select a C&C option before it lets you post.

I'm not wading in to the right/wrong debate here, but I though it might be helpful to the discussion to let you know that that sort of thing is possible.

 

[Walter]

In fact the software can force you to select a C&C option before it lets you post.

I was with you up to that point Phil but I don't think it would be a good idea to introduce anything that makes posting more onerous. It is too easy to deter people.

Perhaps the buttons could default to "No C&C" leaving the onus upon the poster to change it or not.