Triple lead threads

[alpha1]

Hmm not sure the pen body is long enough I didnt take into account the lentgh of the thread. We will see.?

 

[alpha1]

Yep been measuring up I should of made the pen body at least 10mm longer. Hmm back to the drawing board I will need to come up with a solution or start again.

 

[alpha1]

I made the body and cap I now need to make a section for it and decide wether I am going to fit a clip or not. I am stressing out over making the section.

 

[silver]

I have made a start I have cut the triple lead threads on the cap and pen body I have cut the blank to lentgh. I am not sure how long to make the cap and pen body. I dont think I am going to finish it in a hurry. To much to take in to many variables. I think this one is goung to stress me out.
Not sure about tackling the nib section. Reading every thing I can get my hands on.

Post pics and if anyone can help they will do. I’m sure @ValleyBoy will will help out as well as a few others on here that do a lot of kitless pens.

 

[alpha1]

You can actually see through the blank but because it dosnt have a tube it dosnt really matter.

 

[Rich Aldrich]

12-3 are hard for me with a bock 6. I like the 13-3. makes the the section look better i think.

Do not stress over it. If the first section does not wortk; make a better!

 

[alpha1]

Nearly there its going to work.
If I do it again I agree a 13 triple lead thread is the way to go a Bock 6 nib and section definatley looks better.
I added a clip. I am happy with how it looks with the clip.
Up to now the biggest issue is the section because I am turning the section on a metal lathe. I have a Wood turning lathe but because my Shed is so small and full of stuff I can not access it. Any one turned a section on a Metal Lathe that can advise.
I also now have a better understanding of the lentghs of blanks needed for the different parts of the pen and diameters of the sections.
I have created a spread sheet to log all this info for reference.

 

[ValleyBoy]

Nearly there its going to work.
If I do it again I agree a 13 triple lead thread is the way to go a Bock 6 nib and section definatley looks better.
I added a clip. I am happy with how it looks with the clip.
Up to now the biggest issue is the section because I am turning the section on a metal lathe. I have a Wood turning lathe but because my Shed is so small and full of stuff I can not access it. Any one turned a section on a Metal Lathe that can advise.
I also now have a better understanding of the lentghs of blanks needed for the different parts of the pen and diameters of the sections.
I have created a spread sheet to log all this info for reference.

I shape mine on a wood lathe but you can use a file on the metal lathe. I’d use a round or half round (assuming you want a concave profile). Get the lathe running at around 1000 and lightly file the top. It’ll take a while but it’s a common technique in machining. To help you could take small steps out of it first using a parting tool or other form tool.
Cheers
Ash

 

[alpha1]

Thanks again Ash I never thought of that I can probably use a round nose shaping insert to achieve the shape I want for the section.
I am thinking this pen will be finished by the week end. I will post pictures. It has been a bit of a challenge but was an interesting journey.
I am all ready looking forward to turning the next one using a Bock size 6 nib but it will have to be made using a M13 single lead thread I can not justify the cost of M13 triple lead taps and dies at the moment.

 

[Rich Aldrich]

I did an exchange. The maker uses a single thread. Displaced Canadien on the IAP web. Gifted artist. Prefers the single thread. Looks good on a pen!

 

[alpha1]

Not having much look luck with nib section I have buggered up three attempts up to now. I might have to use a bought in section but I dont really want to.

 

[SorinS]

I have made a start I have cut the triple lead threads on the cap and pen body I have cut the blank to lentgh. I am not sure how long to make the cap and pen body. I dont think I am going to finish it in a hurry. To much to take in to many variables. I think this one is goung to stress me out.
Not sure about tackling the nib section. Reading every thing I can get my hands on.

Dave, I'll give you my initial method when I first started on kitless, even will a longer post:
I bought a piece of 18mm diameter dowel rod (I found it in DIY stores), made of ash, very cheap, 1 meter long. I made all imaginable tests on this, for cap, for barrel, for section, anything you could imagine, too long, too short, too large, too small... I finally made a pen with all desired characteristics, in size and shape, which was able to accommodate the nib, the converter, with brass inserts for threads in cap and body (or ebonite, acrylic, whatever is more in hand for you). All of them were (still are) without an usual clip, but with a roll stopper, I found this more distinctive, sometimes more elegant, always avoiding the pain in the ass of hand making a regular clip. I will probably use some regular ones for my future bespokes.
After I was happy with some size combinations for caps+body+section, I started on valuable materials, stabilized wood, hybrids etc. I always make sketches before and during such jobs, sometimes I change the design several times, even during turning the pieces. Take a look on Youtube at "Exotic wood pens", very detailed tutorials, or RJB, or Just turning. Or keep asking here! ;)

 

[ValleyBoy]

Not having much look luck with nib section I have buggered up three attempts up to now. I might have to use a bought in section but I dont really want to.

What’s the issue you’re having?

 

[alpha1]

1. First one the thread snapprd of while trying to drill for the ink converter.
2. Got the measurement wrong for the internal thread.
3. Didnt measure up properly drilled it all wrong.

I need to make a drawing and pay attention to detail more. I need to develop a method and work flow way of making the section. Use my calipers more often. I need to have a swop around in the Shed and see if I can access my wood lathe. Or get another Shed.

 

[ValleyBoy]

All good fun, no doubt…

A little tip which may sound dramatic but I found very useful when I was starting - take one of your “failed” sections and cut it down the middle to see what’s going on inside. You can offer the nib housing up against it to see how the treads align and really get an idea of what’s going on inside. You can also insert a converter into the nib and see how that lines up too. And you can still measure the various measurement with callipers and make the small adjustments you need on the next one.
This was an invaluable step, which I did more than once, when I was first making sections.
Cheers
Ash

 

[Penpal]

Dave I have a very close friend Casey Giggens who is now making pens for a living and occasionally shows his pens on this forum.. All his pens are made using triple start for obvious reasons. He lines his mostly burled pens with a plastic inserted blank. I admire your courage in this venture.

 

[Rich Aldrich]

Don't give up!!!!!

 

[Paul-H]

Dave

Jumping back to your original problem using the 12mm threads which you found you ended up unable to use the Bock #6 nibs. What was the problem. I know Ash recomended using 13mm threads for the #6 but I have a couple of commercially made fountain pens using 12mm Cap threads and they both have huge #8 nibs.

Just curious what the exact issue was as I am about to embark on my first bespoke pen and just at the stage of ordering all the taps and dies.

Thanks for any help with this.

Paul

 

[ValleyBoy]

Dave

Jumping back to your original problem using the 12mm threads which you found you ended up unable to use the Bock #6 nibs. What was the problem. I know Ash recomended using 13mm threads for the #6 but I have a couple of commercially made fountain pens using 12mm Cap threads and they both have huge #8 nibs.

Just curious what the exact issue was as I am about to embark on my first bespoke pen and just at the stage of ordering all the taps and dies.

Thanks for any help with this.

Paul

Perhaps I should step in here and explain my reasoning.
First of all you can certainly put a no6 or a no8 nib in a 12mm pen, but my advice was really to help make life easier for anybody starting out on bespoke pens.
It really comes down to the relationship between the diameter of the nib housing compared to the diameter of the section, with the difference between the two being the amount of room you have to play with (wall thickness) on the section. This is especially relevant if, like me, you add a “waist” to your sections to aid the holding of the pen when in use.
To use a couple of examples:
12mm triple lead tap and dies are usually 12x0.8 meaning the minor diameter is 11.2 (let’s call it 11 to allow for any tolerance). So that’s basically the widest your section can be or it won’t fit inside the cap.
The housing of a Bock no8 nib is around 10mm (somebody can correct me) meaning you need to drill a 10ish mm hole through the section to accommodate it. That then gives you a wall thickness of around 0.5mm. This doesn’t allow for the little lip at the end of the nib housing which I like to rebate inside the section to give a positive stop when screwing the nib in. You can’t really do this with a no8 bock nib in a 12mm resin pen.
So basically in the case of a Bock no8 nib I would suggest that 12mm is pushing it (can be done but not much room to shape the section if you want to). Of course sections made from metal work better in the scenario and I believe you can get no8 nibs with narrower housings but I’m taking specifically about Bock nibs and acrylic materials.

As for a no6 nib it is certainly easier to accommodate into a 12mm pen as the diameter is in the 8mm range (it varies between makes) and the lip on the end tends to be around 9mm so you’re down to about 1mm wall thickness at the edge. That’s fine but doesn’t allow a huge amount of room for mistakes and can look a little brittle if, like me, you like to add a slight chamfer to the edge of the section.
Using a 13mm tap and die gives you an extra 1mm (0.5mm wall thickness) which is a lot in these terms.
So in summary it is certainly possible to fit larger nibs in smaller pens, the mechanics work just fine, but when you start applying ergonomics and aesthetics it may influence your thinking.

Hope that helps!
Cheers
Ash

 

[Paul-H]

Thanks Ash

It turned out I made an error in my assumptions above, the Commercially made pen I mentioned above which I thought was a #8 turned out to be a #6, found this out when my Bock #6 order arrived this morning. oops.

13mm Tap and Dies order, Although to start with I am only going down the single thread route, not spending the small fortune triple thread set cost until I am sure I can actually turn a pen successfully.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

Paul